Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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littlebeaver
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Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:32 pm



I have been messing with this stand again today, I figured something out...It takes messing around sometimes to learn what others have not shown me yet.. I teach myself sometimes and if it's accurate I pass it on..First I have made sure the timing is correct using the timing sight cap and confirming the F marks align on both leads #2, #4..I made my stand to the height of the pulley..A cd or dvd is basically the same size as the pulley if you wish to round it like i did, you could probably get away with a straight board doing this..On my stand I have 3 marks the lowest one is the TDC mark at the arrow the center mark is the 10 degree advance mark at idle and the highest mark is the total advance mark...You can get the TDC mark off the side of the case if you wish but I set the pulley to TDC and painted the mark on the pulley....Now this is what got me...You have to paint the mark on the other side of the pulley too...Here's what happens if you don't..No advance at 3k will show up,I mean it will show a naked line and a unpainted mark is hard to see so paint it:shock: ...The 10 degree one will show at idle just fine, but then when you throttle up it disappears if not paint on the other side, crazy man. :shock: ..I said wow..so I painted the other side and it showed up just as plain as day as you go up to 3k...Wow :shock: I was amazed...I didn't know that..But now I do and I am here to share with you guys..My findings ...

Here we go ...Now on the stand, paint the TDC line get it from the pulley, measure up 5/16" from the TDC mark and paint it and for the advance mark measure up 15/16" to that mark from TDC mark..Done... It should idle right on the 5/16" mark and then raise to the other mark as shown in this video.....Oh yeah, use #2 lead only on this pulley, if you go to the other pulley and use #4 this is mostly to get the measurment to the advance,,, I was pleased with my findings today.....Very happy indeed... :D Hey, for those that don't have a timing sight cap this might just work for you..
Attachments
Paint both marks on the pulley or you won't see it advance to 3k, look hard at the pulley to see the bottom paint mark
Paint both marks on the pulley or you won't see it advance to 3k, look hard at the pulley to see the bottom paint mark



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RoadRogue
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby RoadRogue » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:27 pm

I had to read this again after I watched the video then it all became clear to me what you were up to. Nicely done there Beave. makes it easy to confirm the timing is set properly and that the advance is not stuck. Well done indeed 8-)
Ride safe, Todd
Over night campers welcome

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littlebeaver
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:56 pm

Thanks Todd, I'm not only checking my timing here but also checking my advance,,,what struck me so funnny was at first I didn't mark both marks on the pulley just the arrow side and when I went to advance it to 3k I couldn't see any white paint..where did it go :shock: ,,It was just there at idle..I could see it but once you accelerate, it went away for some reason hummmm...so then I painted the mark on the opposite side of the pulley and don't you know that sucker showed up just as plain as day when I advanced it...amazing what you can learn by messing with something long enough.. :D

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RBGERSON
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby RBGERSON » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:36 am

Fairly sure randakk sells a disk to do just what you did..I'll look later

Yep, here you go

http://randakks.com/collections/tools/p ... gree-wheel
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

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littlebeaver
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:47 am

I saw his disk, it's a degree wheel basically... This is simple and easy and I'm not trying to take anything away from the fella..I don't have a degree wheel this is to show how a guy can do it himself without one..Using measurments instead...as noted the timing marks were spot on target before I achieved my measurments, the total rise was achieved by marking the highest point of the advance on the stand..I have no idea how Randakk does his wheel thing..that post is for 1000's isn't it or is it for 1100's too?
Last edited by littlebeaver on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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trashtruck
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby trashtruck » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:52 am

beav, i know you're just trying to verify vacuum advance is working but i was wondering. while your on the ground like that operating the throttle by hand from the back of the plenum, how do you verify 3000 rpm? are you also running a tach meter? or are you just guessing cause it doesn't matter as long as the advanse does what it's supposed to?
WHAT IS THE SPEED OF DARK?

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littlebeaver
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:07 am

trashtruck wrote:beav, i know you're just trying to verify vacuum advance is working but i was wondering. while your on the ground like that operating the throttle by hand from the back of the plenum, how do you verify 3000 rpm? are you also running a tach meter? or are you just guessing cause it doesn't matter as long as the advanse does what it's supposed to?

trashtruck, 3k is just a benchmark man, the advance will max out at 3k if the pickup coils are not sticking or if you don't have a large hole in the diaphragm in the vacuum canister..I already know it maxes out because I have tested it per rpm's before...I am giving these measements so a guy can just mark a stand ahead of time and try it..It's a easy and different way if you don't have a timing sight cap..

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littlebeaver
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:52 am

I did take a lot of time and energy getting this information and making the video/photo's...I have seen nothing like this on any other sight.. Maybe this is common knowledge to everyone, so I have some catching up to do.... :lol:

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littlebeaver
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:57 am

RBGERSON wrote:Fairly sure randakk sells a disk to do just what you did..I'll look later

Yep, here you go

http://randakks.com/collections/tools/p ... gree-wheel

RB,,,This timing wheel is awesome for guy's that have 1000's....It's says it's for 1000's only at the bottom sir.. Besides my way is cheaper...by alot...I can get at least 3, 12 packs of beer for the price he wants for that...My stand can be made in minutes... :lol: :lol: Virgil uses Cardboard I think :lol:

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virgilmobile
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:34 pm

Yup....just a piece of cardboard with some marks on it indicating where the timing marks should be.
I unhooked the vacuum line to verify the mechanical advance moved the timing from 10° btdc and then with the vacuum line watching it advancing. up past the 30° mark.
Initial test showed neither worked....The mechanical was stuck solid,the pulse coil mount plate bearings were rusted solid and the vacuum canister had a hole in it.
It never moved from the 10° mark.
It made a notions difference when all was fixed.

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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby eveready » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:54 pm

Thanks Littlebeaver for this video. It answered my question on if my advance was working. So now I can go back to my carbs and figure out my loss of power problem. I pulled the carbs and gave them a good cleaning and bought a sync. tool from Motion pro and synced them but still no gittup and go. When I bought the bike the vacuum advance wasn't even hooked up to the carbs. I read in here a post by Rb and a link to buy carb rebuild kits reasonable so that will be after I replace the water pump. Thanks agian you were a big help.

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littlebeaver
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:18 am

eveready wrote:Thanks Littlebeaver for this video. It answered my question on if my advance was working. So now I can go back to my carbs and figure out my loss of power problem. I pulled the carbs and gave them a good cleaning and bought a sync. tool from Motion pro and synced them but still no gittup and go. When I bought the bike the vacuum advance wasn't even hooked up to the carbs. I read in here a post by Rb and a link to buy carb rebuild kits reasonable so that will be after I replace the water pump. Thanks agian you were a big help.

My friend Virgil would probably say to check the compression... :D

eveready
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby eveready » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:34 am

I have checked that it is 170 lbs. all around. I'll go thru the carbs agian.

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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:25 am

Good compression,good spark and spark plugs,correct timing.....The only thing left is the fuel mixture.
Now keep in mind also...the engine has to breath in AND out.....Twice in 15 years,once on mine and one other rider,had a unusual problem.
After all was confirmed perfect and the bike still didn't perform like expected,I/we found one exhaust pipe was partially restricted.
On my 78,the header has a inner thermal liner inside the pipe.Mine was swollen almost shut about 2" down from the coupler on one cylinder.
It was causing excessive back pressure and not letting the engine exhale properly.Replacing the header fixed it.
Just something to keep in mind.
I also use a shop vac to bench test the slide action before I put them back on.

eveready
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby eveready » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:57 am

I did read your post about useing shop vac and will use this when I take carbs off this time. The thing that is giving me alot of problems, slides in the cap. I clean them and they slide and bounce in the cap one day, leave them on the bench overnight and they are sticking again. Any suggestions on keeping them free?

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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:00 pm

The slides stick from contaminates,either on the surface of the slide or inside the cap.
On mine,there was just a small spot of oxidation that stuck the slide.
The tolerances between the slide and cap are very close so it won't take much to stick it.
Even leaving it overnight,collecting dust,is enough.
Do this as a start to finish project.Even if it's one carb at a time.
I polish the slide and cap with 2000 grit paper,clean with alcohol or brake cleaner.Do include cleaning the groves in the piston.
I clean the slide bushing with aluminum foil and oil,then wipe it with alcohol....No oil used....
Some will even use Mothers aluminum polish and buff it out and help seal the metal.
When your done,without the spring,put in the slide and rotate it while moving full stroke....You'll feel any drag.If there is any,sand paper the scuffed area only.
If one sticks after it is put back on the carb with the vac but not in your hand,rotate the cap 180* and try again.

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littlebeaver
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:34 pm

Do your bench test first and then when you hook up your 4 gauges to sync. the carbs hit the throttle slowly up to around 3 or 5k or so but the idea is to watch the gauges and make sure they all raise up together,,if one is being stupid still and sticking then you will know which one it is....But I would do everything Virgil suggested first.....Oh and be sure you have yourself a good air filter and no intake leaks....

eveready
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Re: Redo Timing / Vacuum Advance check my way

Postby eveready » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:42 pm

I didn't pull the carbs out of the bike, just squatted them down and pulled the tops off and cleaned and polished them one at a time #4 was sticking all the way at the top and staying open. I put them back on and started it sounds much better and no smoke or gas fumes. I didn't sync them because I have the rad. out waiting on water pump. Will let you know later this week when I get it back together. Thanks guys.




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