GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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birkco
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GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby birkco » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:24 pm



Been running my 1981 GL1100 Interstate for a year (bike had been sitting for quite a while and had to recondition the carbs) and it was using quite a bit of oil but bike ran well.
I followed ideas on the forum and replaced the stem seals, had a slight improvement but was still using too much oil and the compression remained on the low side.
Decided to bite the bullet and took out the engine removed the heads and found some quite bad scouring in 2 pots (from water/rust damage at some stage which was polished), rings seem ok so this could be the reason for the oil usage. Continued and split the engine and discovered that the big ends and mains bearings were badly worn and one was very close to being worn through.

Can anyone offer advice and help with the questions below:-

1.Found it difficult to identify and see the colour code of these bearings any help?

2.Can/should I have the damaged cylinders re sleeved to standard? Or would it be better to have them all re-bored to next size, which would mean new pistons and rings? This bike has obviously done some serious mileage that does not correspond to the speedometer!
Thanks.



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trashtruck
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Motorcycle: 1982 gl1100 interstate

Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby trashtruck » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:46 pm

an 1100 is basically a bored out 1000, so no you cant bore it any more. main bearings and sleeving will cost you more than another motor.
WHAT IS THE SPEED OF DARK?

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birkco
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Motorcycle: GL1100

Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby birkco » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:51 pm

GL1100 – 1981 – engine overhaul

My story so far:-

Bike had sat for quite some time overhauled the carbs and she ran well but had smoke and a small knocking noise when engine cold. Replaced the stem seals better but still smoking on right pipe so decided to do the rings.
Opened up the old girl, to find that all bearings were down to Copper, one big end bearing was collapsed and one was just spinning on the crank. So the crank shaft is worn, as well as two conrods, three of the cylinders were also marked and scoured from water damage.
The pistons and rings are ok and I was going to replace the valves, valve stems and valve seals.

The simple solution would be to bore out the cylinders to 0.50mm and put in new OS piston and rings and replace the crank shaft.

But it seems OS piston and rings as well as replacement crank shaft have been discontinued and these parts are unavailable, at least from Honda suppliers.

The next problem I have encountered is regarding the boring of the block to suit Over Sized Pistons ( the parts manual indicates that there are OS of 0.25, 0.50, 0.75, 1.00mm)

I am told the boring can not be done as the sleeves are coated/treated with a nicasil process?

Why would Honda offer OS pistons if the boring can not be done??

Can anyone shed any light on this problem?

I have also been told that to re-sleeve the bores will create too much heat and engines have seized in the past when this has been done.

And does anyone know where I could get OS pistons and rings to 0.50mm.?

Perhaps this is why the majority has suggested that a replacement engine is the best course of action.

But I am now intrigued and want to find out as much as I can and then make my final decision

Are these just urban legends in the wing world ? Help

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Fatwing Chris
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Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:13 pm

I don't know where your guys are getting their info.My 83 was bored to the second oversize(machine shop screwed up and bored past the first size) with no noticeable side effects.I ran it for a couple of years after,but I've no idea how many miles I would have put on in that time.As far as I know it's still running.I haven't owned it since the mid 90's probably.

Saying all that though I would think because of parts being almost impossible to get you might want to look for a motor.Soungs like that one was badly abused anyway.JMHO
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

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moffat
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Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100
Interstate

Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby moffat » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:26 pm

The GL 1100 is offerered with oversize pistons if it needs a rebore. The engine can be rebored but you must check if the pistons and rings are available before you start. You must rebore ALL bores to ensure correct engine balance .
I had both the left hand cylinders re sleeved to standard size as the bike had been standing for years on its side stand, before I bought it in a fit of madness . It had been left with a blown head gasket leaking coolant into the left hand bores causing extensive corrosion. It was cheaper here in the UK to have the left hand bores re sleeved to the standard size as the right hand bores where OK. The bike needed quite a bit of bedding in after the job but now its fine with no problems. The bores are cast into the casing at manufacture and then machined so its not recommended that you try and match two different casings up- You might be lucky but you might not.
As you are splitting the engine its imperative to change the bearings and oil seals whilst at it. Do not forget the cylinder valve oil seals! I changed the primary chain as well as it was very slack but it makes the same noise as before so that was a waste of money. This is the third engine I have rebulit and the new toroidal primary chains are expensive but I changed them anyway and have realised why HONDA do not not give any wear tolertances for the primary chain - They are unburstable.
Good luck and be patient, these engines are supurb.

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thrasherg
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Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby thrasherg » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:19 pm

There is DEFINITELY NO NIKASIL on standard GL1100 bores.. Nikasil is a very expensive process used on racing engines, it was never used by Honda back in the days of the GL1100, your bores can definitely be overbored..

Gray

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birkco
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Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby birkco » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:35 pm

moffat wrote:The GL 1100 is offerered with oversize pistons if it needs a rebore. The engine can be rebored but you must check if the pistons and rings are available before you start. You must rebore ALL bores to ensure correct engine balance .
I had both the left hand cylinders re sleeved to standard size as the bike had been standing for years on its side stand, before I bought it in a fit of madness . It had been left with a blown head gasket leaking coolant into the left hand bores causing extensive corrosion. It was cheaper here in the UK to have the left hand bores re sleeved to the standard size as the right hand bores where OK. The bike needed quite a bit of bedding in after the job but now its fine with no problems. The bores are cast into the casing at manufacture and then machined so its not recommended that you try and match two different casings up- You might be lucky but you might not.
As you are splitting the engine its imperative to change the bearings and oil seals whilst at it. Do not forget the cylinder valve oil seals! I changed the primary chain as well as it was very slack but it makes the same noise as before so that was a waste of money. This is the third engine I have rebulit and the new toroidal primary chains are expensive but I changed them anyway and have realised why HONDA do not not give any wear tolertances for the primary chain - They are unburstable.
Good luck and be patient, these engines are supurb.


Great advice moffat - I am having big, big problems trying to find OS piston and rings need OS .50 ! ART do not seem to manufacture them anymore.
So if unable to find them I will have to go the resleeve route. Do I re-sleeve all cylinders ? or just the damaged ones? I will also need to find a good crankshaft. The pistons are ok and I will need to resize one conrod and get a full set of main and big end bearngs.

Amongst all the "stories" I have been given , including "nicasil" I was told that re-sleeving causes the block /engine to over heat and seize?

I did notice that the primary chain links did have a bit of excessive play and I will replace this as well.tks.

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moffat
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Interstate

Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby moffat » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:57 pm

These engines are not Nikasil coated thats a smoke screen. They can be rebored. GET THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL. This will tell you what to do and how to measure bore wear/ piston ring wear both at the top of the cylinders and the bottom by gapping anew piston ring.
If there is ridge just below the top of the cylinder bore this is a good first indication of bore wear. As the engine is in bits its common sense to replace parts as stripping it down again is a big job.
Always use quality part and perform as much causal analysis as possible before getting the spanners out. I always conduct a pressure test on the cylinders following the manuals procedures. BE VERY CARFUL WHEN REAING AND RECORDING THE BEARINGS INFORMATION before ordering spare parts as the mains and big end bearings are not identical

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moffat
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Re: GL1100 1981 to re-sleeve or re-bore

Postby moffat » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:02 pm

Should have mentioned the torodial ( Morse) primary chain slack. I have had engines with an inch of slack in the chain and have replaced them just in case and they are not any quieter with the new chain in.
These engines NEED the carbs syncronised as it it the most common cause of primary chain slapping noise.
Its amazing how good these chains are but they are expensive
Good luck and keep smiling




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