Rear engine case cracked


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rah2627
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Motorcycle: 1982 gl1100a aspencade

Rear engine case cracked

Postby rah2627 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:29 am



I recently replaced the water pump on my 1982 Gl1100A . Now I'm afraid that I might have major problems. Followed the forum "how to" step by step , even had the laptop outside with me. All seamed to go well both on tear down and reassembly . I ordered oem honda parts from Bike Bandit (all parts came in sealed Honda bags) . All that was not oem was the hose, (napa). Got nervous and called a MOBILE Mechanic who had previously rebuilt the carbs for the finishing touches. He noticed that I had bought new timing belts and asked me why i had not replaced them. Told him that's why i called him, because i was not comfortable doing the job. Long story short , he changed the belts and i tried to follow on the how to . looked like he did it correctly , crank at T1 , pulleys in up position, notches matched on pulley and block ect. Bike tried to fire up then died. On the next attempt to start, it acted like the started was locked up, I had rebuilt the starter and knew it worked well. He asked me to bump the starter button while he tapped the starter, We heard a pop, like when you arc something, and the motor started spinning freely, even tried to start ! Now the rear engine case is cracked and the stator is hanging out the rear. He said he had a cover at his shop and would be back.
No Show since , bad cell # ect. Have i trashed the motor ???



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thrasherg
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby thrasherg » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:19 am

We really need to see some pics before we can really give an answer to this.. It doesn't sound nice.. Get some pics of the crack/engine and we can start to suggest possible causes and solutions.

Gary

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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby cbx4evr » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:22 pm

After the belts were installed did he turn the engine over slowly a couple of revolutions by hand?

This doesn't sound good and the fact that you can't get a hold of him seems to indicate he may be aware that he screwed up.
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby thrasherg » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:23 pm

I wouldn't jump too quickly to conclusions here, screwing up the valve timing will cause the valve train to meet with the pistons, it is highly UNLIKELY to cause the rear engine cases to crack!! I think there is something else going on, hence my request for some pictures.. It doesn't sound good, but I am not sure that you can blame the mechanic just yet!!

Gary

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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:43 pm

I'm in San antonio, what's this guys name.. ??? Something fishy with this.. :shock: the stator is hanging out the rear...it would have had to blow out pretty well for the stator to hang out the rear..I also would love to see this...PM me and I'll ride over and take a look..And take a photo to report...

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trashtruck
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby trashtruck » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:05 pm

i'm not sure if the entire motor is toast but you can plan on pulling it anyway to replace the rear cover.
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Big Blue UK
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby Big Blue UK » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:37 am

Not jumping to conclusions, these are the facts if the truth has been told. I doubt if anyone here would follow the chain of events the mechanic did with their Wing engine.
Unless proved otherwise beyond doubt excluding something strange or force of nature, the facts of your description of events points to
A timing belt was out and it stalled when a piston met a valve, then the mechanic fractured the casing
The mechanic should have triple checked the timing belts, turning over by hand between checks. did he leave the covers off so he could check the tensioners were tight after running the negine for a spell.
The engine displayed clear and classic belt misalignment symtoms, it stalled when a piston met a valve, thus preventing the engine from further turning over.
No one with any experience starts whacking a starter on a engine that stalls and fails to turn over following belt replacement, showing clear symptoms of belt misalignment.
The acing pop you heard was him fracturing the casing by hitting a top notch starter while it was engaged trying to turn over a seized engine, so what else could be expected othet than what happened.
He told you he has a cover at the shop because he knew he fractured it.
It was not You that trashed the motor, and it could not be called a accident which does happen such as forgeting to tighten a bolt, negligence trashed it.
If you were alone it may be your word against his, apart from his actions after the event, the mechanic knows what happend and is hoping to escape it.
Go see the mechanic with a letter informing him of your clear intentions if he does not put things right.
Last edited by Big Blue UK on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B0b88
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby B0b88 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:43 am

Is this a hoax??? Pictures are a must🙀

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Big Blue UK
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby Big Blue UK » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:47 am

Hard to believe someone would do that is it not.
B0b88 wrote:Is this a hoax??? Pictures are a must🙀
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B0b88
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby B0b88 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:06 am

Yup, I was just hoping me bumping his post would get him to post pictures faster, because now I am curious as hell to see what he is talking about and as an added bonus I will get email updates whenever someone replies hehe

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SteveB123
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby SteveB123 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:24 am

LegsandaWing wrote:A timing belt was out and it stalled when a piston met a valve, then the mechanic fractured the casing


If a valve meets a piston, driven by a starter motor.....what breaks the back of the engine case?
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby dingdong » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:38 am

Now the rear engine case is cracked and the stator is hanging out the rear. He said he had a cover at his shop and would be back.

Hmmm? I wonder if the stator bolt came loose at some point (while turning backwards to align the timing marks perhaps) and caused the lockup condition and cracked the rear case. Somehow I can't fathom the starter having the power to crack anything.
Did the mechanic not turn the engine over by hand to test the belt alignment before using the starter? Something just doesn't add up here.
Tom

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littlebeaver
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:37 am

I really would like to see a photograph of this,, Rah if you want I can come over and have a look and take a few photo's to post...If you want, you know, so we can all gawlk over it..And decide what caused this..Sounded like it hydrolocked when the starter stopped almost... Then blew the Pluck up somehow,,I'm sorry for you man..Really I'm not making light of this,,this has to suck big apples...

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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby thrasherg » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:16 am

SteveB123 wrote:
LegsandaWing wrote:A timing belt was out and it stalled when a piston met a valve, then the mechanic fractured the casing


If a valve meets a piston, driven by a starter motor.....what breaks the back of the engine case?



That is ALSO what I was thinking, hence my request to see pics, I cannot believe a misaligned timing belt would crack the rear of the engine.. It will do damage to valves and other mechanical parts, but I can't see how the rear casing gets cracked!!

Gray

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Big Blue UK
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby Big Blue UK » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:32 am

How you dooin thrasherg. It seems like a important detail was overlooked.
The OP wrote this
He asked me to bump the starter button while he tapped the starter, We heard a pop,
There is no gueesing what could have caused it when the OP detailed what actually happened. The mechanic hit a very good starter motor while it was under full load stress trying to turn over a locked engine. This is what fractured the casing, the facts are there. Read my post carefully, I wrote the misaligned timing belt only caused the engine to sieze or lock up.

If someone wants to lock up their engine using a breaker bar and air socket on the crankshaft. Then hold in the starter button while someone hits the starter motor, the starter motor will be more than happy to fly out as you fracture the mount, all it needs is a hairline fracture that may well survive turning over a engine, but the force exerted on a locked engine is a fair bit..

I trained as a mechanic in 1974 and although never worked as a mechanic I changed many timing belts, when I bought the Wing I have now, the first thing I did was change the belts.
Even I asked for tips and advice before I did it, even though I found it to be the easiest belt change I have done.

thrasherg wrote:
SteveB123 wrote:
LegsandaWing wrote:A timing belt was out and it stalled when a piston met a valve, then the mechanic fractured the casing


If a valve meets a piston, driven by a starter motor.....what breaks the back of the engine case?



That is ALSO what I was thinking, hence my request to see pics, I cannot believe a misaligned timing belt would crack the rear of the engine.. It will do damage to valves and other mechanical parts, but I can't see how the rear casing gets cracked!!

Gray
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SteveB123
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby SteveB123 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:16 am

LegsandaWing wrote:How you dooin thrasherg. It seems like a important detail was overlooked.
The OP wrote this
He asked me to bump the starter button while he tapped the starter, We heard a pop,
There is no gueesing what could have caused it when the OP detailed what actually happened. The mechanic hit a very good starter motor while it was under full load stress trying to turn over a locked engine. This is what fractured the casing, the facts are there.


What moving part fractured the rear of the case?
This has been asked multiple times. I can confidantly say it wasn't the starter button. :lol:
The OP hasn't mentioned the starter mount, or the heads, or anything else being broken. Just the rear of the case.

For that matter, he hasn't mentioned whether or not the engine was any good before he began this work.
Had it sat for a long time....because the PO lost a part inside the case? Should the current mechanic have known that?

Not nearly enough "facts" to assign blame yet. Pics, please.
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Dakotaman
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby Dakotaman » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:21 am

Wouldn't the stator have tried putting out more power than normal for the starter to work right? Maybe the stator got so hot that it just blew!! ???

rah2627
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby rah2627 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:02 am

Sorry That I have not replied sooner. I came down with a case of the shingles and have been out of pocket for a week. I am not very computer savvy , so as soon as can figure out how to post pics I will.
Contacted littlebeaver , maybe they can help me post pics.

I dont know enough to know if I am actually describing my issue correctly

Thanks,

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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:19 am

Rah, you can contact me like this,,,you can call me 913-708-5499 or you can just send me a PM [personal message] just click on my name and there is a spot there to click on to send a PM..I'll be happy to come have a look and snap a photo or two.. Beave,[Martin] I'm out by the airport..

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littlebeaver
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:43 pm

Ok fella's I got some photo's from Rah2627 he sent them via e-mail because my cellphone doesn't do photo's... I captured them and here they are...
Compression check numbers
Compression check numbers
I only got 3 cylinders in the photo's I'm sure the fourth is near or close to these numbers, I think one was the same photo twice at least when I copied them it said this photo all ready existed, no big deal...
I only got 3 cylinders in the photo's I'm sure the fourth is near or close to these numbers, I think one was the same photo twice at least when I copied them it said this photo all ready existed, no big deal...
Oh man just like he described, blown out the back, Unreal man
Oh man just like he described, blown out the back, Unreal man
Kinda makes you wonder if the mechanic left the socket and ratchet still on the back when he cranked it and the nut came off and it threw out the stator some how... :shock: I'm guessing now..

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trashtruck
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby trashtruck » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:35 pm

that looks expensive, hope the mechanic has his insurance paid up. looks like either the rotor bolt failed or the starter snapped the entier shaft off the rear of the engine. either way there's no way to fix that with engine in.
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SteveB123
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby SteveB123 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:41 pm

Holy Cow.

How on earth.....

Why do dealer ships refuse to work on Olde Bykes?
Exhibit 1!
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:28 pm

So what would you fella's do if this was you...?????? I'm feeling kinda bad for Rah here, he just changed out the water pump to... Fudge...

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trashtruck
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby trashtruck » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:50 pm

rah, document everything. dates, times, phone calls, who said what and when, pics, pics, pics. if you cant get hold of your mechanic, take it all to the sherriff or county attorney. call your insurance rep, mabey they can help.
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SteveB123
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Re: Rear engine case cracked

Postby SteveB123 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:22 pm

Are those compression numbers before or after the crackage?


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