GL1100 missing after warmed


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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idjit
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: Rusagonis, N.B.
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Interstate

GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby idjit » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:01 pm



Hi!!

My GL starts a bit rough and then after a 20 seconds or so sounds great. After a short run and warmed right up it will be missing at idle. Kinda like; purr, chunka-chunka- purr, chunka, purr, chunka - chunka - chunka, purr - pur - purr, chunka, purr, chunka - chunka - chunka - chunka - chunka - chunka , purr, chunka, purr. (best sung to the tune of "Born to be wild" -Stephenwolf).

If I shut it down, and instantly re-start, without touching the throttle. It will be smooth again for perhaps a minute and then drift back into it. The last couple of days it's been quite bad.

I have tried loosening the the gas cap to see if it fixes it. Also, new CDI's this year so I put the old ones back in to test. (The only reason I changed them was because they were dripping and I felt a bit funny about re-potting something that had got hot enough to un-pot itself.) I don't see any sparking and have replaced all plugs. I gapped them for my '80. (I noticed the '80 gapping spec is closer than the 81-82's. What ever it is, that's what I set it to.) Old plugs all looked about the same. Compression all about the same. Voltage is 14.3 @ 1000 RPM while it's missing. I've got seafoam in it at the moment, but I don't think that's going to cure it where it seems to be heat/time related. Also ran some though late last summer after I bought her.

I might mention that my exhaust is rotted out and I have some Jardines on the way. Pipes are good. I was wondering if it could be lean or lacking back pressure, but the sound of the exhaust isn't any louder than it was.

I am going to take this to a shop to have the Jardines put on. I figure someone used to dealing with 30 year old frozen exhaust nuts should do this, rather than me snap them off. I was hoping to have this figured out before I took it in to save some dollars.

Things that seem weird is it sure seems to get enough gas on the highway and it will run good after the start. For quite a while on a cold start. Seems to have to warm up, but a quick off/on fixes it for a very short time.

Any ideas would be appreciated!

Thanks -Bob


Last edited by idjit on Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

idjit
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: Rusagonis, N.B.
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Interstate

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby idjit » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:56 pm

OK, I hope being a "newbe" counts on this forum or I'm in big trouble with you guys. I confess for the benefit of others.

I started pulling wires from the coil one at a time only to find it idled great with either 3 or 4 disconnected, but with either 1 or 2 disconnected I had to give it a bit of gas. Conclusion: 1 and 2 are doing all the work, 3 and 4 were starving for gas and simply stalling here and there.

So, I turned down 1 and 2 and turned up the idle and then frigged a while longer until pulling any one wire gave me the same RPM. It's purring like a kitten out there. Now at least I feel I can drive it without harming it. I have a 20 minute drive to the shop.

So I read up here and have found out that syncing carbs is the #1 suspect for just about everything. I'm assuming I haven't discovered a new way to do it right (but I bet it's close), so now I need to get the vacuum thing done. I'm going to get the rigg'in to do it myself once a year. Thank you "WingAdmin" for explaining how to make up my own set of gauges and how to use them.

I'm going to give myself a little credit for getting this far on my own. I never owned or drove a bike till last year. I took a very intensive safety course and started with a Savage 650. Love this GL. (650 for sale!! HaHa)

I also read about the belts. The guy who sold it to me said they were new. I no longer feel like I should trust him. The mechanical and safety risk is too big.

-Bob (BTW, "idjit" was something a good friend called me when I was in elementary school and right through till we grew up and took our separate paths. That was 36 years ago. I decided to use it as my handle on this site, not knowing how well it would fit today. (OK, I lied.... I never grew up.)

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:19 am

Keep in mind that every time you change a setting - mixture, jets, whatever - on the carbs, whatever carb sync you had done is out the window, and you will need to resync them.

idjit
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: Rusagonis, N.B.
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Interstate

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby idjit » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:09 pm

Well, I thought I had this fixed. Seemed OK at idle after what I did, but a good test run reveled I still have a "missing" issue, both while cruising and then when idling. Not at first. I have to go for about 5 minutes. Letting it heat up idle won't take it there anymore. Much better at low speed.

I came home and turned it off right away and pulled the plugs. #1,#2 and #4 have the nice tan on the insulator tips, however, #3 plug is white as ivory. Every thing else about it looks OK. The part that is used to adjust the gap and the electrode tip are the same color as the others. The end of the threaded part looks the same darkness. No deposits, wetness, or signs of wear. These plugs are about 60 miles old.

#3 is on the side of the bike that has more of a muffler issue. The bike isn't terribly loud, but definitely louder than it should be. Could the bad muffler make this cylinder run lean enough to make it miss? Should I just wait till my mufflers show up or is there something I could/should tweek till they arrive. I read somewhere that I might have to make the mix a bit richer with the Jardines anyway. The service manual only talks about the pilot screw but, as I understand it, that's for idle mixture.

"WingAdmin" warns that any adjustment will throw my sync out , so I'd like to correct this before paying to have the vacuum hoses attached.

BTW, I'd love to be using a torque wench on the spark plugs but I can't find the torque spec anywhere.

Thanks -Bob

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:53 pm

idjit wrote:BTW, I'd love to be using a torque wench on the spark plugs but I can't find the torque spec anywhere.


That's because there isn't one published anywhere. The maintenance schedule has you replacing them every 4,000 miles (!!!), so I guess they assume you're always installing new ones. Their instructions are "finger tight, then 1/2 turn with a wrench to compress crush washers" - and that's all you get.

idjit
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: Rusagonis, N.B.
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Interstate

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby idjit » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:17 pm

Yes, I saw that in my owners manual, but that's going to over tighten an already compressed washer. Well, I've never stripped a cylinder thread yet. I'll just keep doing my thing. NGK has a chart according to thread size, with or without gasket and aluminum VS cast iron. I would feel safer had Honda told us. I might go back there and use the lower side of the appropriate range. I have never liked guessing the torque on anything that moves. I suppose I could also put in a new plug and us a torque wrench to do the 1/2 turn and read the scale.

I think on the missing thing I'll just have to park it to my mufflers clear customs and then hope it makes a difference. If this is an issue of too lean, I don't want to push my luck. -Thanks!

idjit
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: Rusagonis, N.B.
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Interstate

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby idjit » Fri May 07, 2010 7:02 pm

Here I am some time later. My new Jardine exhaust cleared customs and I finally got around to installing them. The weather getting warm here and I'm getting itchy to ride.

It's still missing when warmed up. Tonight I noticed that I can pull any one wire and still get the missing if I wait long enough. I think this rules out CDI's, Wires, and Coils. What's that thing called that generates the pulse? A pulse generator maybe? I'm wondering if heat could be affecting it.

The other thing I'm wondering about is a thermostat. My old '78 air cooled VW bus had an issue with it's thermostat that made it miss when warm, but it was feeding the computer the wrong info and the computer was sending too rich of a mixture and blue smoke was the result. But that was using injectors. On the bike, I'm not getting any blue smoke and the fan runs and the temp sits about half way on the gauge. Plugs look good. I previously mentioned one being a bit whiter, but the fact that I still get missing when the plug wire is removed rules that out as the problem.

So what about that pulse generator. Could it be affected by heat? No doubt that being fully warmed is when I have the issue.

I poured seafoam through the air intake tonight and have run a can of seafoam through the tank.

I'm open to any suggestions anyone might offer. Thanks -Bob

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby WingAdmin » Fri May 07, 2010 11:27 pm

I have heard this exact symptom being caused by failing pulse generators on GL1200's, and I can't see why the (very similar) system on GL1100's couldn't cause the exact same problems. It could be just one, or both...I'd tend to want to try replacing both.

idjit
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: Rusagonis, N.B.
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Interstate

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby idjit » Sat May 08, 2010 6:46 pm

This is interesting;

I had synced the carbs, but I still had some missing. I waited for my new mufflers to clear customs and took my time getting around to installing them. Meanwhile I still had the remains of my tank of gas with the seafoam in it. (sitting in the carbs too, I suppose.)

Yesterday, before my last entry in this thread and the missing worse than ever, I seafoamed by way of the air intake, but noticed no improvement. Here is how it sounded after warmed up:




(that's not me and my bike... it's someone else)
Does anyone recognize this hollowish sound?

I guess the remaining seafoam in the tank wasn't done working when I previously synced, and continued to do it's thing during the wait for exhaust installation because I just resynced it and they weren't even close. Amazing improvement. Still a bit of the hollow sound on the left, but it doesn't appear to be missing.

Update, next day:
After the same run with pretty much the same weather conditions it has returned. Not nearly as bad, but I thought it was fixed. If I accelerate, like if I was passing someone, I hear it missing a bit ("chunk") and the idle is a minor version of the above video at the end of the run. I feel OK to drive it like this but something isn't right.

idjit
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: Rusagonis, N.B.
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Interstate

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby idjit » Tue May 25, 2010 5:47 pm

I finally got this fixed. A simple problem. A small crack in a plug cap. My wiretester didn't see this because I was testing just before that.

My wife and I went on our first long trip last weekend. We're hooked!!

Thanks -Bob

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: GL1100 missing after warmed

Postby WingAdmin » Wed May 26, 2010 1:38 pm

That will do it. Good way to find this is to spray water on it when running in the dark, and look for sparks.




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