Gasket question


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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robertdawber
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Gasket question

Postby robertdawber » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:02 pm



Hi Folks
On an 83 GL1100 I have taken the front engine cover off (behind the radiator) to change a water pump.
The question is this-the parts are pitted where the gasket(s) go between. I have the new gasket but am considering using a Permex product instead-
Thoughts?
Bob



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WingAdmin
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Re: Gasket question

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:48 pm

How bad is the pitting? I haven't tried a liquid gasket like Permatex, but I have read where people tried this on the front engine cover, and found bits of it in the oil when they drained their oil. There is oil behind that cover, and it is under a bit of pressure, so the gasket fit really does need to be fairly good. Is the pitting on the engine block side, or on the cover side?

robertdawber
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Re: Gasket question

Postby robertdawber » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:17 pm

WingAdmin wrote:How bad is the pitting? I haven't tried a liquid gasket like Permatex, but I have read where people tried this on the front engine cover, and found bits of it in the oil when they drained their oil. There is oil behind that cover, and it is under a bit of pressure, so the gasket fit really does need to be fairly good. Is the pitting on the engine block side, or on the cover side?

Thanks for the quick reply-
It is hard to describe the degree of pitting-
The upper right part of the gasket looks like it failed (oil gunk all around the underside of the engine)
The heat and cooling combined with the fluids may have done some of this. In another part on the top left it looks as though someone used a small nail to remove some old gasket.
The answer is this-a little on both sides-the cover and the block. (in different sections)
The amount is the size of a push pin head in width swirling like a termite would make-the lengths vary-(there are two of these) no more than the width of a penny.
Bob

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Re: Gasket question

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:18 pm

If there was no oil leakage before, I think I'd be tempted to clean it really well, put a new OEM gasket on there, and seal it up tight, then watch it for a little bit to make sure it's leak-free.

NUTCKERGOLDWING
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Re: Gasket question

Postby NUTCKERGOLDWING » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:04 am

I BELIEVE I WOULD USE A SILICONE PRODUCT IF I USED ANYTHING,, GM MADE A PRODUCT FOR A LONG TIME THAT WORKS REALLY WELL. YOU CAN GET IT AT ANY CHEVROLET DEALER. IT IS CALLED "GMS". IT COMES IN RED FOR COOLANT AND BLACK FOR OIL, WORKS SUPER AND WILL STILL COME APART LATER. USE JUST A SMALL AMOUNT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE GASKET, YOU CAN EVEN USE IT ON THE O-RINGS IF YOU LIKE. IF YOU GO THIS ROUTE THE PARTS MUST BE CLEAN BEFORE USING THIS STUFF. I MYSELF JUST USE A LITTLE GREASE ON THE GASKET AND O-RINGS AS THESE ALUMINUM SURFACES ARE MACHINED PRETTY GOOD AND ALMOST DON'T NEED A GASKET.


BILL IN ALASKA

robertdawber
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Re: Gasket question

Postby robertdawber » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:48 am

NUTCKERGOLDWING wrote:I BELIEVE I WOULD USE A SILICONE PRODUCT IF I USED ANYTHING,, GM MADE A PRODUCT FOR A LONG TIME THAT WORKS REALLY WELL. YOU CAN GET IT AT ANY CHEVROLET DEALER. IT IS CALLED "GMS". IT COMES IN RED FOR COOLANT AND BLACK FOR OIL, WORKS SUPER AND WILL STILL COME APART LATER. USE JUST A SMALL AMOUNT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE GASKET, YOU CAN EVEN USE IT ON THE O-RINGS IF YOU LIKE. IF YOU GO THIS ROUTE THE PARTS MUST BE CLEAN BEFORE USING THIS STUFF. I MYSELF JUST USE A LITTLE GREASE ON THE GASKET AND O-RINGS AS THESE ALUMINUM SURFACES ARE MACHINED PRETTY GOOD AND ALMOST DON'T NEED A GASKET.


BILL IN ALASKA

thanks Bill-
Grease on a felpro type gasket? That really works?
Bob

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Re: Gasket question

Postby NUTCKERGOLDWING » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:18 pm

I JUST IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS REPLACED THE WATER PUMP ON MY 1981 GL1100, I USED GREASE ON ALL GASKETS AND O-RINGS, IT WORKED GREAT. NO LEAKS AND THE GREASE WILL HOLD EVERYTHING IN PLACE TILL YOU CAN GET THE BOLTS BACK IN. I WORK AS AN AIRCRAFT MECHANIC AND WE USE A PRODUCT CALLED FUELUBE TO INSTALL GASKETS, AT LEAST FOR THE MAJORITY OF THEM. FUELUBE IS A REALLY THICK AND KIND OF STICKY "GREASE" USED IN THE AVIATION BUSINESS. WE TRY TO AVOID THE CEMENT TYPE GASKET PRODUCTS AS THEY ARE OFTEN VERY DIFFICULT TO REMOVE THE NEXT TIME AND ONE CAN DAMAGE THE MATING SURFACES TRYING TO CLEAN THIS STUFF OFF.
BILL IN ALASKA

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Re: Gasket question

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:49 pm

I used vaseline to hold mine in place when I did the water pump, worked great.

robertdawber
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Re: Gasket question

Postby robertdawber » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:28 pm

Well I ended up taking the whole thing off to get the neutral switch in the right position.
One quick note-don't forget to plug the switch back in prior to testing it. I did that and thought of it right away-but I know this is something that when I am tired I might have overlooked.
Why such a low torque on these bolts??

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Re: Gasket question

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:33 pm

Because the bolts are threaded into aluminum, which is much softer than steel.

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Re: Gasket question

Postby bigbrown » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:17 pm

One last comment on this, the gasket is also a spacer so you need it even if you are using a liquid gasket material. Without the gasket in there, you cannot shift gears, Ask me how I know that !!! I had a mechanic who took about 3 extra hours because he tried to do it without a new gasket, and it was me who finally figured out the problem. Long story but the point is you need that spacer in there.
Ron
aka Big Brown

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Re: Gasket question

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:33 pm

Good point, I never even thought about that - but that gasket gives you a good 0.5mm (at least) of space in there, and all the shifter mechanism is right there behind that cover.

robertdawber
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Re: Gasket question

Postby robertdawber » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:43 pm

WingAdmin wrote:Good point, I never even thought about that - but that gasket gives you a good 0.5mm (at least) of space in there, and all the shifter mechanism is right there behind that cover.

Are we talking about the valve cover gaskets or the water-oil area?

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Re: Gasket question

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:49 am

We're talking about this gasket on the front engine cover:

Image

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thrasherg
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Re: Gasket question

Postby thrasherg » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:07 am

You have to have a gasket in place for that cover otherwise things will bind and the gear change will not work as Honda intended. The mating surfaces look quite normal, I would put a bit of grease/vaseline on the new gasket and re-apply. I would not use any form of silicon sealant your surfaces look just fine, the pitting you mention looks to be the normal pitting that I have seen on most aluminium engines of a certain age!!

Gary

robertdawber
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Re: Gasket question

Postby robertdawber » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:16 am

thrasherg wrote:You have to have a gasket in place for that cover otherwise things will bind and the gear change will not work as Honda intended. The mating surfaces look quite normal, I would put a bit of grease/vaseline on the new gasket and re-apply. I would not use any form of silicon sealant your surfaces look just fine, the pitting you mention looks to be the normal pitting that I have seen on most aluminium engines of a certain age!!

Gary

Thanks Gary-
I did put it back on already-all went on fine.
I am going out of town for a few days and when I get back my new gaskets for the valve covers will be here I will then be able to test this gasket.
Only a few more items and I will be riding again!
First major work since I have owned this bike (4 years now?)
Bob




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