1980 1100 no spark to plugs


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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Patriccio
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1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Thu May 16, 2013 12:32 pm



Morning,
A little background first: previous owner states that bike was last run sometime in 2007. I bought the unit in March, 2013. I had carbs rebuilt, refurbished radiator, new battery, changed oil, etc. New plugs. I have no spark at plugs. I grounded plugs to case. I traced wires in harness & discovered one broken wire to coil. I reattached it. Double checked all the dummy stuff--petcock, fuel filter, switches, bells 'n whistles, key in ignition.
Now, I still have no spark. All the lights on dash work. It's in neutral; neutral light works. So now I'm looking at what? replace coils? Pulse generator? Spark units?
Help on diagnosis will be appreciated.
Patrick



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virgilmobile
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 16, 2013 1:08 pm

Please don't throw parts at it till you can identify why there's no spark....
!980 gl1100 uses 2 pulse coils,2 ignition modules and 2 seperate ignition coils...The likleyhood that they would fail in pairs is slim...
I'd be looking for what is common to both...Electric..
Get your test probe..there are 2 small wires on eack coil...pick one...turn on the key and probe each one...one should have switched volts,the other is the module and should have a much lower volts....
The coil gets it's power from the "kill" switch and the ignition switch...If it has a balast resistor(the long sand block resistor on the coil) one side is switched ignition and the other is power to the coils.
A schematic can be had under the "manuals"section...

Note that i mention the "kill" switch...it's often overlooked and can be bad...

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Thu May 16, 2013 1:29 pm

Thank you. Right. I don't want to be a "partschanger," which is why I've posted here. I may not be able to get back to it until this weekend. I'll go through your diagnosis system.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 16, 2013 2:09 pm

I'll be watching with bated breath till you find the problem......I'm easily amused and distracted.

Well..maybe, not but I am interested....Post again with what you find or if you need more details.

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Thu May 23, 2013 12:18 pm

I've checked & cleaned most of the connections from the battery to the ignition switch/kill switch & through to the coils. Now, I do have a tiny spark @ all four plugs, not the fat blue spark. Any suggestions on tracing this problem because it still won't start? Clymer & maintenance manual don't address this (unless I've overlooked the info).
Thanks folks
Patrick

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 23, 2013 1:04 pm

In this post....viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17049
I have a video showing the parts from a 83 gl1100.
I rigged it up on my bench and applied 12 volts just as the bike should..I triggered the spark with a screwdriver in the same manner as a bike would trigger it and you can see what the spark looks like.
You mention that you now have a spark...not very good but a spark none the less.
If your spark is much lower than mine there are only a few possibilities...
The very first is to measure the volts that operate the coils...It's measured from frame ground to the black/wh wire on the 3 wire plug going to the ignition coil...
Or it can be measured on the ignition module...green is ground and black/wh is 12 volts.
It should be above 11 volts while cranking....If the voltage gets below 10,the spark starts to drop off.

If the volts are OK,the coil wires,coils,ignition modules might be in poor condition.

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Thu May 23, 2013 3:20 pm

Thanks vrgl-m.
I'll go through diagnosis again perhaps this afternoon. I couldn't get your video to work on this computer. I printed off the whole Honda repair manual & have been going through the step-by-step diagnosis in the Ignition chapter. Starter seems to be OK, but even build-up in that unit could inhibit things, wouldn't ya think?
Patrick

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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Calzone » Fri May 24, 2013 8:55 pm

Just so you know I wasnt overly impressed with my spark either, Not fat blue and no snap to it but it was during day light , but my bike runs good and all is well so maybe your OK there.

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Fri May 24, 2013 9:37 pm

The sparks were so tiny! I'll do the diagnosis again tomorrow when I have time. Ya know, I serve calzones at my restaurant in San Diego. Check out sorrentinossd.com for our menu. We probably don't deliver to your area, though. And I really don't think you personally are on my menu!
So if I have sparks to all plugs, & it still won't start, what do I look at next?
ciao

Calzone
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Calzone » Fri May 24, 2013 10:22 pm

Spark timing and compression is all it takes, Timing and compression are next in any order you like.

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Sat May 25, 2013 3:29 pm

It started this afternoon @ 1:22 PST. Lots of blue smoke. I'll run till warm, then I'll change the oil again. Smoke has dissipated, & I have a fan running towards the radiator. I hear a bit of valve clatter.
Thanks all of you!

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Sat May 25, 2013 6:33 pm

A bit of ticking is OK.
The valves must be adjusted when the engine is dead cold.
What was the secret to get it to run.????

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Sat May 25, 2013 7:03 pm

Virgil,
I don't know what the secret was! I cleaned & checked every electrical connection I could find. Then I made sure the battery was maximized; then I put a bit of Seafoam in the carbs, then I put a bit of Seafoam into the oil;then I shot a bit of WD 40 into the spark plug holes to loosen up that lil puppy;then it just fired right up w/ nary a stutter in the starter. It's idling around 950-1000.
I've changed the oil, & when I get a chance I will assemble a device to sync the carbs, & I will check/adjust the valves. I used to do the adjustments on my old '79 CX500 & "82 Yamaha Seca 650, so those tasks won't be difficult.
While I've got the back wheel off, I will probably install new bearings in the swingarm & wheel.
Anyway, lots more to do.
Thanks for your help. You can exhale now.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Sat May 25, 2013 8:38 pm

Whew....thanks.....
It must have just been lonely....

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Sat May 25, 2013 8:54 pm

"nuk nuk nuk" sayeth the raven.

dwight007fchr
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby dwight007fchr » Tue May 28, 2013 9:03 pm

"Kaaaa-Kaaaa-Kaaaa", saith the Krow

Your description reminded me of a witch tossing all kinds of wierd critters, alixers, and magic mushrooms into her caldron.......but what the heck, you got her to fire-up!

dwight

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Tue May 28, 2013 9:08 pm

Yea, well Granpa said it ran in 2005 right before he retired it. Not my granpa, though.
I checked the valves on Sunday, & they were all perfect. On to syncing the carbs!

dnesbitt69
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aspencade

Re: 1983 1100A wont start

Postby dnesbitt69 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:26 pm

background on my 83 aspencade purchased last summer been sitting for a couple of years
starter was bad been replaced
turn signals slow to work, usually worked after about ten minutes
gear indicator stayed in the neutral position
i traced some wires and fixed a few tattered ones, changed my starter solenoid to take a 30 amp bayonet fuse instead of the original line fuse.
went on a bumpy ride and the bike started bucking, instrument panel going on and off then it stopped.
once home i found the 30 amp fuse blown, entire fan circuit wires fried
bike would start but the fuse would blow within 15 to 20 minutes
i removed all the plastic, radiator and tin to open up the wire harness and engine.
bought and replaced the fan harness, a couple more wires had been damaged inside the main harness at point of heat so they were repaired.
now the bike turns over vigorously but wont start or even hick up
wondering where i should start
any help would be so appreciated
don

Patriccio
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby Patriccio » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:45 pm

On my 1980 1100 I had traced all the electrical from the battery to the kill switch, ignition, coils--everything. The very last thing I did was disassemble the connectors where the 30 amp fuse is located. I cleaned all the connectors & taped up a frayed wire leading from the connector. Then the unit kicked over as if it had never been stored. It didn't even grind; it just started.
I had also disconnected the plug wires at the coils to check those connections. I had also checked the connections leading to the coils. I also made sure the plug wires were separated. That's all I got.

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echinus1988
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby echinus1988 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:09 pm

Hi All,

Ok, I had to remove my motor to replace the stator. Prior to this, the bike ran and did ok.

After replacing the motor and rebuilding carbs, I lost the spark.

What I have done:
1. Checked the kill switch. I have continuity on the run setting, No contact on either off setting.
2. I have checked the pulse generator, I have 530 Ohms (give or take 10%) between matching wires.
3. I have checked the Black/White wire at the coil and have 12.5V (on a battery Maintainer).
4. I have gone over my connections to make sure I didn't miss something putting it back together.
5. I have cleaned connections connected with the ignition.
6. I have a new spark plug and checked for spark again. Still nothing.
7. Checked all fuses including the 30A one. Replaced the 5A accessory fuse. All others are good.

Any suggestions of anything I missed? It's driving me up a wall. I have talked to a mechanic and he couldn't suggest anything I haven't already done.

I hope someone has a suggestion.

Thanks all.
Steve

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:58 am

I had a post on how to test a pulse coil using a cheap analog meter.
Measure the DC volts across one coil.With the key on it's very low.Somewhere less than 1/2 volt.
As you crank the engine,the needle should wiggle a little.
This verifies the coils are actually being triggered.
Its possible the advance mechanic is not turning.A tiny pin locks it to the shaft.

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:44 am

Here's the post...Note the little wiggle as I crank the engine..viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11800

I did a post about the absolute basics too...viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17049

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:33 am

I cleaned up the moving parts in my PG and it helped a lot..Mine was a mess, my plug from the PG near the battery side was dirty and the connection was bad too...got that repaired...then the carbs floats were way off...Slow jets were clogged, all connections at every joint was gone through, sometimes the ground is a problem, the bike must be well grounded...If the bike isn't well grounded all kinds of issues can occur...Check it at the frame...It won't hurt to look..Mine was rusty and dirty ass hell..Just saying , everything was brighter and everything worked better once I cleaned it, started cranked much better too.... It's often over looked because it's so basic..

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echinus1988
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Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby echinus1988 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:26 pm

Virgilmobile,

Testing across the coils? Is that running across the B/W on the one side and the Blue (I think) on the other side with the multimeter?

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: 1980 1100 no spark to plugs

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:22 pm

yes the 2 blue wires from the pulse coil.The 4 wire plug to the left of the battery.Do not connect the meter to ground,connect to both leads right into the back of the plug ..
if the needle swings backward,reverse the leads...
Normal voltage is guessed at 0.2 volts dc

You can test either pair of wires,,or both if you like.
The needle should wiggle just a little as you crank the bike so don't put the meter on the bike,lay it on the ground.




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