My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.


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rockford75
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My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby rockford75 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:58 pm



Hello fellas,

My trip meter and odometer dont work any more. My speedometer works great,but no trip meter or odometer. Is this a cable problem? Or the instrument itself? Most guys Ive talked to around town say ah who cares? Well I care I like everything on my bike working properly. So can you help me out? Thanks.


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David-Mantle
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby David-Mantle » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:42 pm

If the speedometer is still working it is doubtful that the cable itself is broken.
Just a thought - hope it helps.
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:10 am

A bad unit.Probably not repairable.A small plastic drive gear has slipped on the shaft or cracked.
The chrome ring has to be pried off to sepetated the unit.Leave the trip knob on it.I broke mine trying to get it apart.
Ended up replacing the entire unit.

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rockford75
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby rockford75 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:51 am

virgilmobile wrote:A bad unit.Probably not repairable.A small plastic drive gear has slipped on the shaft or cracked.
The chrome ring has to be pried off to sepetated the unit.Leave the trip knob on it.I broke mine trying to get it apart.
Ended up replacing the entire unit.
Where can I buy the entire unit? I know it wont be cheap,but If it needs it it needs it.
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WingAdmin
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:25 pm

rockford75 wrote:Where can I buy the entire unit? I know it wont be cheap,but If it needs it it needs it.


They haven't been available new for many years. Your only option is the used parts market - i.e. eBay.

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Wilcoy02
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98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby Wilcoy02 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:44 pm


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krazni
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:25 pm

This is a story of a failed success... I, too, have had recent problems with the speedo on my 81 wing. Noisy and bouncing needle, etc. I could loosen and wiggle the cable at the speedo and it would temporarily stop the noise and bouncing, but then it would be back. So I surmised the issue was in the speedo, so I sprayed graphite up into where the cable goes -- didn't help. Next I replaced the cable with a new OEM cable -- again didn't help. Now this is my daily driver (I'm in S Arizona) but I am currrently waiting on brushes to show up for the starter, so since it is down anyway I removed the speedo to check things out.

I checked out the website that Wilcoy02 recommended, and sure enough I got the speedo opened up with a minimum of effort. Briefly the process is: #1 remove all the external stuff from the gauge. #2 I used a straight screwdriver (about 1/8" wide) to get the crimped lip started to open. #3 I used the smallest screwdriver blade on my Leatherman as a wedge to continue opening the lip. I slowly pushed and twisted it around the circumference of the gauge, and in about 10 minutes the back easily separated off.



By the way, I left the trip gauge knob in place until I got everything open. The I grabbed the end of the shaft opposite the knob with needle nose pliers and turned the knob COUNTER CLOCKWISE to unscrew and remove it.

Now I looked at the mechanics and have some observations to pass on to anyone else who might try this venture ;)

#1 The design is such that when lube is sprayed into where the cable attaches, very little of it gets into the gauge. But enough got in that it gummed things up inside. Lesson #1: don't try to lube the gauge. ;)

#2 This applies specifically to the original question on this topic. IF the cable is spinning it WILL move the needle unless the needle is frozen. However it also drives (worm drive gear) the trip meter and odometer. I found on mine that over the miles (999,997) it had worn the odometer gear to a point where it barely contacted the drive gear. I believe THAT was the cause of my noise, and the "sometimes driving and sometimes not" resistance caused the bouncing needle. The bottom line for this topic is that if your trip and odometer are not turning, this is likely your cause. Unless you can build up the shaft and recut the splines in it, it is not repairable.



So far I'd been successful, but now the failure occurred. I had used a penetrating lube to clean the innards of the gauge, and now I wanted to get that all out so it wouldn't gum things up in the future. So I decided to use alcohol to remove it...

#3 DONT DO THIS! At least not the way I did it. I immersed the gauge in a container of alcohol so it would soak in and loosen / clean out the penetrating lube. But I realized too late that it also loosened and cleaned off the paint on the dial! :oops:



Now I can know how far I've ridden, but I have no idea how quickly I'm getting there! :(

So now I'm in the market for a set of gauges ... alas, live and learn, huh? Bummer :x

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krazni
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:10 pm

OOPS!! adjust that last post to read "turn the trip knob CLOCKWISE to remove it." It is reverse thread...

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krazni
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:43 pm

And a final post on here... I actually put the speedo back together -- with semi-accurate markings :lol: Here's what it looks like. Not totally accurate, but enough to function until I find a replacement. Anybody with a "rat" bike want to buy this once I replace it?? :roll:

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98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby Wilcoy02 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:28 pm

so does the gauge now work?

If you go back to that link and look up pistol pete- He might have the gauge dial for sale. Somewhere I read on that forum where he does repair gauges and has a plate to put on what you washed off--I think.

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krazni
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:35 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:so does the gauge now work?


short answer, I don't know yet. When the speedo froze internally it actually broke my relatively-new cable, so now I need to replace it -- again. But spinning it by hand does flip the needle. I cleaned up the threads on the very-worn odometer drive gear, so hopefully everything will either work or at least not jam. But I also have gotten a line on a couple replacement gauges, so it should only be a matter of a few days before replacing the unit.

I bought this bike in July as a daily driver (100 miles) to save money -- but after 6 months and 8,000 miles, repair costs have kept that from happening ... :cry: We live on a very tight budget, like most everyone, but are realizing that this may have been an expensive lesson and I need to replace it already. In the meantime it costs me an extra $7 a day while waiting on repairs.

I guess the real question is, "When do you stop throwing good money after bad?"

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rockford75
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby rockford75 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:15 pm

krazni wrote:This is a story of a failed success... I, too, have had recent problems with the speedo on my 81 wing. Noisy and bouncing needle, etc. I could loosen and wiggle the cable at the speedo and it would temporarily stop the noise and bouncing, but then it would be back. So I surmised the issue was in the speedo, so I sprayed graphite up into where the cable goes -- didn't help. Next I replaced the cable with a new OEM cable -- again didn't help. Now this is my daily driver (I'm in S Arizona) but I am currrently waiting on brushes to show up for the starter, so since it is down anyway I removed the speedo to check things out.

I checked out the website that Wilcoy02 recommended, and sure enough I got the speedo opened up with a minimum of effort. Briefly the process is: #1 remove all the external stuff from the gauge. #2 I used a straight screwdriver (about 1/8" wide) to get the crimped lip started to open. #3 I used the smallest screwdriver blade on my Leatherman as a wedge to continue opening the lip. I slowly pushed and twisted it around the circumference of the gauge, and in about 10 minutes the back easily separated off.

PICT6591.JPG


By the way, I left the trip gauge knob in place until I got everything open. The I grabbed the end of the shaft opposite the knob with needle nose pliers and turned the knob COUNTER CLOCKWISE to unscrew and remove it.

Now I looked at the mechanics and have some observations to pass on to anyone else who might try this venture ;)

#1 The design is such that when lube is sprayed into where the cable attaches, very little of it gets into the gauge. But enough got in that it gummed things up inside. Lesson #1: don't try to lube the gauge. ;)

#2 This applies specifically to the original question on this topic. IF the cable is spinning it WILL move the needle unless the needle is frozen. However it also drives (worm drive gear) the trip meter and odometer. I found on mine that over the miles (999,997) it had worn the odometer gear to a point where it barely contacted the drive gear. I believe THAT was the cause of my noise, and the "sometimes driving and sometimes not" resistance caused the bouncing needle. The bottom line for this topic is that if your trip and odometer are not turning, this is likely your cause. Unless you can build up the shaft and recut the splines in it, it is not repairable.

PICT6596.JPG


So far I'd been successful, but now the failure occurred. I had used a penetrating lube to clean the innards of the gauge, and now I wanted to get that all out so it wouldn't gum things up in the future. So I decided to use alcohol to remove it...

#3 DONT DO THIS! At least not the way I did it. I immersed the gauge in a container of alcohol so it would soak in and loosen / clean out the penetrating lube. But I realized too late that it also loosened and cleaned off the paint on the dial! :oops:

PICT6590.JPG


Now I can know how far I've ridden, but I have no idea how quickly I'm getting there! :(

So now I'm in the market for a set of gauges ... alas, live and learn, huh? Bummer :x




Thanks for the reply Krazni. man you peeled the paint off the speedo? That sucks! love the redo you got going on for a speedo nice paint job, I found some shops online that repair gages and have the original speedo faces and all. So iam going to send it there and have them calibrate everything. like this guy 1 of many Ive found online http://www.joellevinecompany.com/custom ... intagegage Id never take my gauges apart to many small parts you could never replace youd have to make them. I dont have time or tools for that. Thanks agian for the reply and I hope your gages work out for you.
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krazni
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1976 GL1000, dressed with Vetter

Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:37 pm

rockford75 wrote:Thanks for the reply Krazni. man you peeled the paint off the speedo? That sucks! love the redo you got going on for a speedo nice paint job, I found some shops online that repair gages and have the original speedo faces and all. So iam going to send it there and have them calibrate everything. like this guy 1 of many Ive found online http://www.joellevinecompany.com/custom ... intagegage Id never take my gauges apart to many small parts you could never replace youd have to make them. I dont have time or tools for that. Thanks agian for the reply and I hope your gages work out for you.


Yep, peeled the paint very quickly! I initially swished the gauge around in the alcohol for less than a minute, and the when I pulled it up the paint was running down. At that point there was nothing I could do, so I swished it around again for a few more seconds -- and it was pretty well gone. Literally less than 1 minute total contact time with the alcohol!

There were only two plastic gears; one on the end of the trip gauge shaft and one on the end of the odometer shaft. And actually there aren't any small parts, unless you pull a couple c-clips to mess with the numbers on the odometer. It was fairly tedious to remove anything -- Honda is pretty sure they don't want Joe Consumer getting in there and resetting the odometer ;)

I purchased a speedo / tach set from Ebay -- should be here this weekend. There were several on there, and the prices for good ones ranged from $75 to over $200. I also contacted about a dozen people who were parting out bikes, but theirs had all been sold already. I hope it goes well for you at the rebuild place.

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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:25 pm

So now another question... I got the replacement speedo from Ebay, and the wiring is just a bit different. Each speedo has three bundles going into the gauge. One bundle has the green / brown wires (2 each) for the lights that illuminate the dial -- these match. The other two bundles attach to the sides of the actual odometer mechanism inside the gauge and have some electronics connected to them. One of these bundles has 3 wires (pink, green, black w/ brown stripe) -- these also match. The other bundle is different between the two gauges. The original (1981) has 3 wires (gray, white w/ green stripe, brown w/ red stripe), and the replacement gauge (year unknown) only has 2 wires (green, white w/ black stripe). Any ideas, anyone?

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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:40 pm

krazni wrote:So now another question... I got the replacement speedo from Ebay, and the wiring is just a bit different. Each speedo has three bundles going into the gauge. One bundle has the green / brown wires (2 each) for the lights that illuminate the dial -- these match. The other two bundles attach to the sides of the actual odometer mechanism inside the gauge and have some electronics connected to them. One of these bundles has 3 wires (pink, green, black w/ brown stripe) -- these also match. The other bundle is different between the two gauges. The original (1981) has 3 wires (gray, white w/ green stripe, brown w/ red stripe), and the replacement gauge (year unknown) only has 2 wires (green, white w/ black stripe). Any ideas, anyone?


The three wires on your 1981 are for your turn signal buzzer sensor. The grey wire is pulsed +12V coming from the flasher relay. White with green stripe is +12V, and brown with red stripe is the output of the sensor, going to the buzzer.

The replacement gauge you have is from a 1983 standard. The green is ground, and the white with black stripe goes to the turn signal cancel unit - which your bike doesn't have.

I would suggest you seal off the wires that connected to the original unit and leave them disconnected - which means you'll have no turn signal buzzer. The other option is to try to remove the sensor from your old unit and install it in place of the new sensor on your new unit. I don't know if that's possible or not.

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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:27 pm

WingAdmin wrote:... which means you'll have no turn signal buzzer...


Got it, and thank you! Actually, I'm glad to have that silly buzzer disconnected :D It was a relief when the first speedo quit operating and the buzzer quit too. I'll have it all back together and take it for a test run tomorrow. Hopefully no other issues will show up -- for a while :roll:

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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:18 pm

As long as I'm in the middle of this instrument cluster, is there any way to bench test if the 7-volt regulator is bad? I've read the write-up on the Hollsco regulator and my fuel and temp gauges ARE intermittent -- but it seems to parallel the operation of the rear air suspension indicator light! Normally this occurs when I first begin riding in the morning. After a few minutes, the suspension light will come on briefly like it would at start-up, and at the same time the fuel and temp gauges begin to work. The regulator MAY be bad, but it's happened enough times to indicate perhaps another common cause ??

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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:46 pm

Personally,just for piece of mind,I'd replace it with a new solid state version.
http://goldwingdocs.com/Store/Goldwing- ... ator.asp...
Other common problems are intermittent or corroded grounds and connections.
As far as bench testing......
Not the best test method as the regulator really needs to have a load (gauges and sensors) attached to it.
So "bench test"...not really ideal...Hooked to the bike is the best way.

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krazni
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:28 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Personally,just for piece of mind,I'd replace it with a new solid state version.


Thanks, virgilmobile, I will do that. And I know intermittent issues are a pain to troubleshoot. Between those gauges and the suspension light, ARE there any other common factors other than the ground? I might as well check them all out at once :?

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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby jeffcosmo » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:07 am

I had this problem on a 1982 Honda CB650SC (Nighthawk). Odo was inbetween the gauges. Turned out that there is a rubber connector from speedo to center odo, and that had gone missing. Took it apart, and carved one out of some rubber I had here, and Bob's my uncle. It was obvious as to what shape it needed to be. My feeble memory says it looked like this:


No, seriously, Bob IS my uncle, but the odo was fixed, too.

I really don't know if the OP's speedo is the same, but the year is right, most Hondas used similar units, and the problem is the same.

Cosmo

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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:57 am

krazni wrote:As long as I'm in the middle of this instrument cluster, is there any way to bench test if the 7-volt regulator is bad? I've read the write-up on the Hollsco regulator and my fuel and temp gauges ARE intermittent -- but it seems to parallel the operation of the rear air suspension indicator light! Normally this occurs when I first begin riding in the morning. After a few minutes, the suspension light will come on briefly like it would at start-up, and at the same time the fuel and temp gauges begin to work. The regulator MAY be bad, but it's happened enough times to indicate perhaps another common cause ??


Definitely. There is a single connector, circled in red below, that provides +12V power to both your air pressure light and the 7 volt regulator (orange box). Check to see if that connector is bad - it also powers your neutral light, high beam light and oil pressure warning light, so those would be malfunctioning as well.

If not, then chances are the regulator itself is bad. It could be that some spike of voltage from something else switching on or off is triggering it back into operation.

Common connector
Common connector

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krazni
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:11 pm

WingAdmin wrote: Definitely. There is a single connector, circled in red below, that provides +12V power to both your air pressure light and the 7 volt regulator (orange box). Check to see if that connector is bad - it also powers your neutral light, high beam light and oil pressure warning light, so those would be malfunctioning as well.


Right, and thank you! I have seen the neutral light seem to function intermittently, but thought it was a bad switch -- which it still might be. But I'll sure check that connection. Is it located in the headlight bucket? And do you know offhand the wire color? Is it the black/brown, as seems to be on the diagram you posted?

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krazni
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Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:34 pm

I found that multiple connection, and it is NOT in the headlight bucket. It is under the gauge assembly cover. There is a connector that the 7v regulator and a wire from the speedo plug into, but the connection for the pressure switch is soldered along with the wires to the other gauges. These solder joints are in the big plastic-wrapped wire bundle that comes from the gauge cluster and terminates in the multi-pin plug. It doesn't seem likely that those will be bad, so I'll check in the multi-pin connector itself -- and then tracing on back. The wires in this picture are the black / brown wire.

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krazni
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1976 GL1000, dressed with Vetter

Re: My Trip meter and Odometer Quit Working.

Postby krazni » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:01 pm

Well, everything is working now with the fuel, temp, neutral, etc indicators. Thank, wingadmin, for identifying a common link to them all -- it turned out the be an intermittent FUSE! At some point I'll replace the 7v regulator to forestall a future issue ;) Now, after being down since before Christmas, I'm on the road again :D




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