Starter and Solenoid


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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Jeeper
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:24 pm
Location: Bridgton, ME
Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100A Aspencade

Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:53 pm



As I mentioned in the DIY section, I pulled my starter last week to rebuild it. The brushes are worn and I dinged up the gear on the end so I had a bear of a time getting it back in. I decided that as I can purchase a new starter for $80, I'll just do that instead of going through the trouble of replacing the brushes and then dealing with that gear issue. The bike starts fine most of the time, but occasionally hangs for a second or two and acts like its not going to start.

This morning I went out to take the bike to work (beautiful day, clear skies and warm for this time of year). The bike turns over a few times then dies. I throw some jumper cables on it but still can't get it to start. I've had a problem with it killing the battery before it starts when cold. Then the solenoid goes... Needless to say I took the car to work. This evening I got fiddling with the solenoid. There was an old one in the bag of parts I got with the bike so I tried that one first but it didn't work either. Reading on another forum, someone had a good set of instructions for tearing apart the solenoid and cleaning it up, which I tried to no avail. My meter is broken, but I suspect the coil has a break in it.

I called around to 3 Honda shops and all of them would have to order the solenoid and all 3 were over $100! So I went to the local discount auto supply store and spent less than $20 on a solenoid for an '85 Ford F-150 and wired that in. I used spade connectors and kept the factory plug on the wiring harness for now and made up jumpers to goto the Ford starter. The only issue I had for some reason was although I had the green/red wire going to the solenoid case as mentioned on another site, it still wouldn't engage until I grounded the solenoid. Once grounded it works fine. I also wired in a 30 amp blade fuse as I removed the one attached to the old solenoid.

The bike turns over now, but not very well as the battery was still down from this morning. I also suspect that the starter is drawing a lot of juice in its present condition. Even with jumper cables to my truck it wouldn't turn over very well and the amps my Ford puts out should have spun it right over. I might have to take up the generous offer made on here of a loaner starter until I can get a new one in.



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WingAdmin
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby WingAdmin » Sat May 01, 2010 8:46 am

I'd wait and see first how it works once the battery is back to fully charged condition. You'd be surprised sometimes how little current can get through jumper cables.

Jeeper
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Location: Bridgton, ME
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Sat May 01, 2010 8:25 pm

I sorted out the solenoid issue. I had a bad connection on the green/red wire that's why it didn't work without the ground.

Let the battery trickle charge all night, went out this morning and the bike wouldn't even turn over. I got it started with jumper cables. I took the bike to work and this afternoon it fired right up. After work I met up with some friends for a little ride. The bike started slow the first time after I shut if off, the next time it wouldn't start at all. Now it just clicks the solenoid. It does fire right up when you roll start it and the lights are bright, so I'm still not sure if its the starter or the battery. I guess I'll just have to change one to figure it out. The battery is new, so perhaps I can take it back and get another one just in case I happened to get a bad one. When riding the voltage meter is reading 13v+ so I know the stator is putting out.

Jeeper
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Sun May 02, 2010 9:57 am

Found a few things out today. First thing this morning I went and got a replacement battery to hopefully sort out if thats what's been causing the issues. Threw that in and nothing, just the solenoid click, even with jumper cables this time. Pulled the starter back off and took it apart and the entire end cap, where the brushes are, was black. I just had it apart and cleaned two weeks ago. It looks like it overheated, so I'm actually wondering if the starter might have not released and I didn't know it. All the high temperature grease I had in the other end cap leaked down onto the armature, so it must have gotten pretty hot. Anyway, that starter is toast.

The bike is parked now until I get a replacement in. For those that are looking for a good deal on starters might want to check out DB Electrical. They sell brand new ones for any year Goldwing. The one for my '83 is only $72 with a one year warranty.
http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/It ... %20SMU0069

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guitarlos
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby guitarlos » Mon May 03, 2010 6:31 am

Jeeper wrote:Found a few things out today. First thing this morning I went and got a replacement battery to hopefully sort out if thats what's been causing the issues. Threw that in and nothing, just the solenoid click, even with jumper cables this time. Pulled the starter back off and took it apart and the entire end cap, where the brushes are, was black. I just had it apart and cleaned two weeks ago. It looks like it overheated, so I'm actually wondering if the starter might have not released and I didn't know it. All the high temperature grease I had in the other end cap leaked down onto the armature, so it must have gotten pretty hot. Anyway, that starter is toast.

The bike is parked now until I get a replacement in. For those that are looking for a good deal on starters might want to check out DB Electrical. They sell brand new ones for any year Goldwing. The one for my '83 is only $72 with a one year warranty.
http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/It ... %20SMU0069


Ive been through 3 starters since last October with DB Electrical. I now know why......the starter spline doesnt exactly match up well with the OEM cog. This then , pushed the chain inwards and possibly pushed in teh angle of the chain. (does this make sense). I also noted that when getting the starter (from DB) into the engine housing , that it was very tight, almost too tight. I had a buddy give me an OEM starter, I placed it in with ease and havent had any issues at all.

Not knocking DB, actually, their "hassle free warranty" works nice, Ijust hate spending 10 bucks to send them back to them. Ive got one more to send back as well, just waiting though....

Was your starter hard to get into place?

Jeeper
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Mon May 03, 2010 3:59 pm

Interesting about the DB starters. So you're saying the DB starter doesn't come with a new chain sprocket? That would solve the issue with the splines if they came matched. The reason I'm asking is on eBay I found one from "BP Electrical" (sounds familiar) that are new for the same price as the DB starters and they state they include the sprocket.

Mine, which I believe is original to the bike, was a very tight fit. I have just enough room with the shifter removed to get the starter far enough forward to clear the shaft. Once in place, I had trouble getting it onto the sprocket, but that's because I messed up the splines when trying to remove the end gear. Interestingly, yesterday when I took it back out, cleaned it up again and put it back, it slid right into place. It started the bike once then died again so its definitely toast.

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guitarlos
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby guitarlos » Tue May 04, 2010 8:06 am

It came with a sprocket, its just that I didnt change the sprocket for fear of dropping it into the case.

To be honest with you, the housing on teh starter, near the spline, that goes into the engine casing, was very very very tight. Almost too tight, compared to an OEM starter. I traded O-rings from an older OEM dead starter that I had and it made no difference in fit.

Jeeper
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Tue May 04, 2010 9:42 am

The sun is shining, its 75 degrees, my lawn is mowed.. at this point I'm ready to push start the bike...

I'll either order the DB Electric or the BP Electric one. They are both Mitsubu starters so I presume they are identical. At this point I just want to get the bike going again, plus I have a Patriot Guard event on Friday that I would really like to attend. I appreciate the comments and it will be interesting to see the fit of the starter.

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guitarlos
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby guitarlos » Tue May 04, 2010 10:04 am

I hope you get out soon!

DB was fast, I ordered it on a Tuesday and it showed up on a THursday. They are in TN and Im in IN.

Id be curious to see your thoughts on the fit of it as well. Just remember to lean it on teh side stand when changing it. ;)

Jeeper
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Thu May 06, 2010 5:20 pm

I ordered the starter from DB yesterday, and I got an email an hour later stating it was shipped along with a tracking number. I'm hoping it arrives tomorrow as I'm anxious to get the bike back on the road. I was going to stand the line at a PGR event tomorrow but I doubt I will make it. I did have a friend offer me the use of his Yamaha Roadstar but I think I'll just take the time to get mine fixed. Being in Maine we've been lucky with unusually warm weather this spring, but tomorrow is only supposed to be in the low-mid sixties and I've gotten spoiled with the Goldwing fairing.

I'll post how the starter installation went for those that are following the thread and curious about parts from DB.

Jeeper
Posts: 93
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Location: Bridgton, ME
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Sat May 08, 2010 11:03 am

Getting frustrated... I paid for the priority mail shipping via USPS and it didn't come today. It was shipped out fast but the postal service is being typically slow. So, paying for priority service means I now have to wait 6 days for my starter, as I know it won't come on Sunday. I guess I should have stuck with UPS, which was the same price.

Jeeper
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Mon May 10, 2010 1:24 pm

Ok, hopefully this is the final update on this post. I got the starter from DB Electrical today. I had removed the old starter earlier today but left the gear on the chain for now. The new gear went onto the chain without any problems. The new starter was slightly different than the OEM one in the nose of the starter, but otherwise looked identical.

The new starter started into the gear fine but would not go into the engine no matter how much I wiggled it. This is the problem Guitarlos had with the DB starter. I did use a little oil on the o-ring but it just didn't want to seat. I pulled it back out and replaced the o-ring with the OEM one which was noticeably thinner. The OEM fit the new starter fine, so I don't believe its an issue with the size of the new starter, I think its just the new o-ring was too thick.

With the original o-ring on at first the starter started acting the same way, in that it didn't want to seat into the opening. With firm pressure I kept wiggling the starter up and down slightly and all of a sudden it just dropped into the hole the entire way. Something was obviously not lined up perfectly at first but once it was the DB starter fit like a glove. It only took a few minutes to get the new one in and the bike starts like new.

So, at this point I have no problems recommending DB Electrical starters to anyone who needs a new one. From what guitarlos stated earlier, I suspect if I have any issues with this one they will honor the warranty without issue. Just keep in mind that you may need to swap the o-ring with the one from your original starter.

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guitarlos
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby guitarlos » Tue May 11, 2010 6:13 am

Jeeper, glad that you got yours to go. Back in the wind ;)

I have been through a couple of starters and once, I did try to use the original O-ring, but after a 50 mile ride, I noted that there wa a bit of seepage of oil in that area, just be on the lookout for that.

When I call DB and tell them of my failures, their warranty truely is "hassle-free" except for spending $10.00 to send them back the defective one. ;)

Be safe out there, its still Spring and most drivers are still hibernating to the awakening of motorcyclist.

Jeeper
Posts: 93
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Location: Bridgton, ME
Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100A Aspencade

Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Jeeper » Tue May 11, 2010 7:11 am

I will keep an eye out. I kept the o-ring that came with the new starter, just in case.

Actually the way it acted yesterday it may not have been the o-ring. After I changed it it initially acted the exact same way, then something lined up just right and the thing literally just slid right in.

Demascus
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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby Demascus » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:45 am

I have a 82 gl1100 intercepter, new battery, new solenoid old stater sort of spun but engine did not turn over, after 3-4 attempts starter stopped spinning and was very hot to the touch. Ordered new starter. Now I cant get the damned thing in, gear and splines line up outside the bike but not when your putting it in the hole. Arrrrrrgh. Now someone said there is a chain adjuster bolt on this thing that loosens and tightens the chain as it looks now it seems a bit too short thus the gear is a tad high for the starter to line up with. I do not want to split the case but can someone tell me about this adjuster bolt? It seems to be stripped as well.
Don

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Re: Starter and Solenoid

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:22 pm

Just a note:many starter,battery problems are related to a corroded ground at the frame.
Always first remove,scrape and clean every mechanical connection.
Remember,as the voltage drops the current goes up.




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