83 Aspencade Water pump woes


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PRACTIKALGUY
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83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby PRACTIKALGUY » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:38 pm



While riding around town yesterday, I noticed white smoke coming from the pipes. I thought maybe it was from the Seafoam in the fuel. However, once I got out on the interstate, I noticed it getting rather warm. Then, after letting off the throttle quickly, it began to run like crap, seeming to come from the left side. After a mile or two at only 40mph or so, it seemed to fix itself, but was still running hot. Anyway, I managed to limp it home, even though it seemed hot (although the temp gauge read normal).
Today, I started it briefly, and it ran fine. None of the plugs seemed steam cleaned. Although, they were a bit oily. I drained the coolant and, basically, it was composed of a couple cups of oil. I drained the oil and it was very dark, probably from the heat, but not foamy or chocolate milk-like. I wiggled the pump impeller, and it has a lot of play in it.
Obviously, I need to replace the water pump, gaskets and o-rings. Does anyone have an idea what may have caused the weird freeway loss of power? Could I have blown a head gasket also? Can just a bad water pump cause white smoke?
Thanks for your help!



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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:51 pm

I think you may have more than just a water pump problem. The water pump has a weep hole with separate circuits from the coolant and oil sides. If the water pump fails, the fluid is supposed to drain out the bottom, not impinge on the other fluid. It's possible for oil to be forced into the coolant through the water pump if the weep hole is blocked (and I have seen where a clueless previous owner, seeing coolant leaking out the weep hole, "fixed" the problem by screwing a wood screw into the weep hole, which caused exactly this problem to occur).

Here's what I suspect has happened to you:

- Pump bearings failed, causing pump seal on coolant side to fail (the most common failure mode of the water pump)
- Coolant was pumped overboard through the weep hole while riding
- Coolant got low enough that it was no longer immersing your temperature probe, so your temp gauge did not show overheating
- No longer enough coolant to properly circulate and cool engine
- Head gasket(s) blown from engine overheating
- Remaining coolant got into cylinders through blown head gasket(s), vaporized and blown out exhaust
- Engine oil migrated into coolant system via blown head gasket(s)

You most certainly need a new water pump, and I think you are in for at least one head gasket job as well. If it overheated long enough to remove all the coolant and burn the crankcase oil (which was the only thing left cooling the now very hot engine), you may be dealing with warped cylinder heads that need to be resurfaced.

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby PRACTIKALGUY » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:15 pm

Thanks for the info. I figured it was more than the water pump. Why did it start running better on the freeway? Did it get hot enough to seal itself a bit? Is there a way to tell if a head gasket blew without removing the head?

Do to time and finances, it looks like it's down for the season; a tax return project. When I do order the pump, do you recommend the original plastic fin type or the aftermarket metal fins? There's a couple good shops here in Madison, WI, which can check for head warping.

Thanks for your help, Brian

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:30 pm

PRACTIKALGUY wrote:Thanks for the info. I figured it was more than the water pump. Why did it start running better on the freeway? Did it get hot enough to seal itself a bit? Is there a way to tell if a head gasket blew without removing the head?

Do to time and finances, it looks like it's down for the season; a tax return project. When I do order the pump, do you recommend the original plastic fin type or the aftermarket metal fins? There's a couple good shops here in Madison, WI, which can check for head warping.

Thanks for your help, Brian


It probably started running better on the freeway because there was so much airflow that it took away some of the heat.

There's only two routes for oil to get into the coolant - through the water pump and through a blown head gasket. A water pump will have to be severely compromised for oil to get through it.

The original plastic fin water pump hasn't been made for many years, Honda now makes only the metal finned ones.

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RBGERSON
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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby RBGERSON » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:57 am

Compression test should show if gasket is blown..double check your valve settings then do a compression test. Try it stone cold and hot..any difference..shouldn't be much.
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

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moffat
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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby moffat » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:38 am

get the water pump with the steel impellor not the plastic one. Could the mechanical seal on the water pump fail and allow water into the oil????

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby David-Mantle » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:01 am

Seems to me as if the head gasket has done skyward. That explains the white smoke , which is steam by the way. There may have been a sweet smell , antifreeze , but since this happened whilst you were riding you may not have smelt this. It is perfectly possible for the gasket to spring a leek between a water passage hole and the combustion chamber thus not showing cream in the oil . This happened to me a couple of months ago so I speak from personal experience.
Check for head warpage buy using a straight edge ( engineers steel rulers normally do the trick ) by placing one across head and try slipping thinnest possible feeler gauge between ruler and head ( normally no more than one and half thousand inch ) . Important to do this over many angles to discount for errors. If head need skimming ask then to "stone" the head and not just machine flat. This creates many slight imperfections that allow gasket to be gripped better and create a firmer seal. I got this tip from an expert engine builder ( since retired ) who used to tune team engines for a top flight racing team many years ago . He also suggested a tip when changing head gaskets is to fill system with distilled water then run engine till warm then turn off and allow to cool overnight. Re-torque head when cold by slackening bolts halt turn and tighten to correct figure , refill radiator with correct anti-freeze mixture and you should be good to go. This normalises the head/block and should prevent premature failure.
Last edited by David-Mantle on Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:10 am

I am not sure where to make a purchase on a new water pump but most fella's will say to stay the heck away from Saber Cycle for that replacement part... I understand some have had issues dealing with them... they claim the parts are faulty and cheap and the service there is even worse, so you have been warned.....This is based on lots of people writing their stories online....I would like to know the name of the company or brand of the company that produces the replacements, anyone know the best and easiest place to find a good replacement water pump?

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby David-Mantle » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:19 am

littlebeaver wrote:I am not sure where to make a purchase on a new water pump but most fella's will say to stay the heck away from Saber Cycle for that replacement part... I understand some have had issues dealing with them... they claim the parts are faulty and cheap and the service there is even worse, so you have been warned.....This is based on lots of people writing their stories online....I would like to know the name of the company or brand of the company that produces the replacements, anyone know the best and easiest place to find a good replacement water pump?


I bought my last unit from David Silver Spares - excellent swift service with full money back guarantees.
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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby RBGERSON » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:50 pm

westernhonda.com nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:38 pm

Thanks noted... :D I will write this down in my book...

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:56 pm

For replacement water pumps, you really only want to use OEM Honda, so any place that sells OEM parts. I normally use http://cyclemax.com/oem_parts

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby PRACTIKALGUY » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:29 am

So, I'm going to do it properly, and replace the water pump and get both heads checked, replacing the gaskets and o-rings. Two quick questions:
1. What do you recommend to flush the oil out of the cooling system? I was thinking of a flush with distilled water and radiator flush, then straight distilled water before putting in coolant.
2. I was thinking about pulling off the whole trans cover to inspect it and replace the o-rings when I replace the water pump. Is this overkill or do you have to do it? It would be nice to not have to remove the radiator yet again this season.

Thanks for the help!

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby David-Mantle » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:25 pm

Last time I had a gasket go and give me milk in oil I took engine out , took off end cover and removed generator rotor. Cleaned starter clutch and made sure all remnants of any cream/sludge was removed. It may be a pain to go the extra mile but if not there is a real chance the starter clutch could seize at a later date and will surely cost you dear especially , if like me , the starter failed miles from home and I had to pay for a breakdown collection.
Just something to ponder over - hope it helps.
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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby PRACTIKALGUY » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:32 pm

I'd hate to pull the engine; already did it twice this summer! Besides, the engine oil was fine...just a bit dark from the engine getting so hot.

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:04 pm

The engine front cover (shift mechanism) has to be removed in order to change the water pump, you don't have a choice - it bolts in from behind. See How to remove and replace your water pump

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby PRACTIKALGUY » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Thanks, WingAdmin, I thought that might be the case. My Clymer manual is strangely lacking in water pump removal/repair.

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:17 pm

PRACTIKALGUY wrote:Thanks, WingAdmin, I thought that might be the case. My Clymer manual is strangely lacking in water pump removal/repair.


You'll find it lacking in a lot of areas - for our bikes, the Honda service manuals are far superior.

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Re: 83 Aspencade Water pump woes

Postby PRACTIKALGUY » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:31 pm

So, I went ahead and pulled both heads off (it took several minutes of gentle persuasion) and took them to the shop to get resurfaced; he said they looked fine, plus he adjusted the valves.
I have the top end kit, water pump and gasket kit ready to go. I have a piece of flexpipe to replace the twisted crossover pipe on the exhaust. Even though the thermostat, timing belts, hose and cap were all new last summer, I think I'll replace them for piece of mind after the "meltdown". Plus, like a dumbass, I stepped on one of the timing belts...no sense in risking it.
Now I just need a warmish day here in Wisconsin....




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