Wont' start! Was running before.


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
  • Sponsored Links
User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:09 pm



Hi everyone!

I am back once again to see if someone can help me find the solution.

First the background as if you don't already know it! lol

1.1980 Honda Goldwing (of course, what else)
2. Was running but had a bad stator.
3. Removed the engine (still have to put my photos together for a DIY), replaced the stator and replaced the rear cover and engine back into the frame. In the process, I broke the pulse generator so couldn't get spark. FYI, the pulse generator cannot be put in 180 degrees out of sync due to the pin that is on it and that I broke. pulled the engine again and fixed the pulse generator.
4. I rebuilt the carbs, set float levels at 15.5mm as per the Honda Manual. Put them all back together and reinstalled everything. I set the jet (Carb Assembly #1, Part 5, Screw Jet A,the one outside that had the limiters on them) at 2.5 turns on each cylinder. It was suggested that I shut them all down, and then open them as I crank the engine to see if I can get it to fire. Will that work?
5. Tried to restart the bike. No go. It turns over but will not fire. Checked fuel pump and it is pumping, checked float bowls and there is fuel in them.Finally sprayed some starter fluid in the carb adn the bike fires and will even rev as long as there is starter fluid being sprayed in. I have used the choke also with no results. And yes, gas has been on and also put it on reserve to check that.

So that points to a fuel issue and I need to troubleshoot it. I can't think of anything else to do to correct it. I hate to remove the carbs once more and open them but I cannot think of anything else to do. Opening them would be to make sure that I didn't put the floats in upside down. And to set the float level I made a float gauge and was very careful to measure it accurately.

I can remove the carbs, double check that I wasn't being stupid and put the floats in upside down (Can that be done?). But other than that, I have no clue where to proceed. But to me it is obvious that I am not getting enough fuel since it will run when I use starter fluid.

Anything that I may have missed? I'm open to any suggestions. And as always, I appreciate all the help I have gotten on this site!

Steve



User avatar
RBGERSON
Posts: 2625
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:57 am
Location: SCOTTSDALE, AZ
Motorcycle: 98 SE GL 1500
had every year from 75 to 83

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby RBGERSON » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:43 am

Plugged filter baskets under the float needles?? from dirty tank?? If gas is goign into the carbs and the bowls are "full???" then that leaves clogged idle jets or float baskets IMHO.

did you check floats like in Randakks site?? level, not tweaked, adjustment tab not bent??
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby ct1500 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:08 pm

If all of the floats needed adjusting a good deal, then yeah something could be amiss there now and needs to be revisited.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:25 pm

Okay. Just went through Randakk's site.

The filter screens were thoroughly cleaned and all debris removed. Made sure that it was in good shape.

I cleaned all the jets so that shouldn't be the problem.

The more I think about it, I am going to have to pull the carbs once more. I will have to open them and check that I didn't put the floats in upside down. I don't think I did but who knows. Does anyone have a picture of which way the floats are supposed to go in?

I will be working on it this weekend, hopefully I'll be able to get it fired up. I hope.

Next time, I can afford Randakk's kit and that will be the way I go!

User avatar
RBGERSON
Posts: 2625
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:57 am
Location: SCOTTSDALE, AZ
Motorcycle: 98 SE GL 1500
had every year from 75 to 83

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby RBGERSON » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:39 am

with the carbs upside down on a bench..the lob part goes in first. Where the brass tab goes into the float should be up toward you. (which is really down when on the bike..)
Attachments
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

User avatar
littlebeaver
Posts: 4420
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Motorcycle: 1981 gl 1100 I , 79 Yamaha XS11
Special, 82 Kawa 750 CSR, 82 Kawa 750 LTD, 03 Kawa Nomad 1500, 99 Kawa Voyager 1200

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:46 pm

RBGERSON wrote:Plugged filter baskets under the float needles?? from dirty tank?? If gas is goign into the carbs and the bowls are "full???" then that leaves clogged idle jets or float baskets IMHO.

did you check floats like in Randakks site?? level, not tweaked, adjustment tab not bent??
I would have to ask, did it idle fine before the stator went out...? I'm thinking electrical for some reason..

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:12 pm

The bike ran fine before the stator replacement. It idled though it was cold blooded. I have tried starting with the choke on and the choke off. Oh yes, I did turn my gas on and also tried it on reserve to make sure that it had gas.

I rebuilt the carbs and don't believe I made any mistakes except one. I made one major mistake when doing the carbs, either got over confidant or missed it in the book. When I removed the vaccuum slide jets I did NOT mark which cylinder they went to. So they are mixed up and no way to straighten them out since I cannot find any markings on them from a previous carb disassembly. Will this be sufficient to keep the bike from starting? I will know not to do that with my son's 75 Goldwing when we start working on that but for now, did I really mess up or just slightly mess up?

I checked the fuel pump. It seems to be putting out adequate flow though I can't do the check the manual suggests since it won't start (run to 3000 rpms). I changed the fuel filter and fuel flowing through the lines seems to be fine but that is just my best guess estimate. If the bike won't start is there a way to check the fuel flow that I haven't seen.

If I spray in starter fluid or place a little gas into the air box area, the bike runs for short bursts. I think this rules out electrical since it appears I am getting spark and the bike wants to run. So this tells me that the air path into the cylinders is clear.

I pulled the carbs and opened them up again. I have the floats in correct, I am going to recheck levels tonight. I will be using the method of holding the carbs up on end and running my float gauge along the length. I will be checking for floats being level, no misalignments on them.I made a float gauge out of a credit card, measured it at 15.5mm, rechecked the height and then cut it. I rechecked the height once I had it cut to make sure it was accurate.

I will be checking each jet separately for any clogging and clean them if necessary. So far, I have checked two and all the jets are clean. I will check the rest today or tomorrow.

The air screws are all set at 2 1/2 turns to start with. I have seen 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 turns but they were at 2 1/2 when I took the old ones out.

So, unless I am missing something, I have fuel flow from the tank to the pump and from the pump to the carbs but that is as far as it goes. I was told that if the fuel is not sufficient the bike will not start. I would think it would start but not run right, not sure. My opinion is that I am not getting the vaccuum to pull the fuel out of the bowl and into the venturi to mix with air. The problem is, why isn't it? I did replace all O rings that I removed (I hope) and made sure everything was put back together the way it should be except for the vaccuum slides.

I have tried to be as complete as I can and hope there is enough information that someone will spot what I and my son are missing. We are both stymied as to where to proceed.

As always, I really appreciate the thought and suggestions you guys give me. Soon I will be putting together my pictures and information for pulling the engine and remounting it.

Thank you.
Steve and Chris

User avatar
82aspen
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:23 pm
Location: canuck eh!
Motorcycle: 82 aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby 82aspen » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:22 pm

mighta missed, are the plugs wet? if yes prob getting gas,

just motor lights up with starter fluid doesn't rule out something like weak spark that wont light up fuel

always do basics first along with cheap easy stuff, and find out all the knowns

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:49 pm

Cheap and easy stuff is what I am trying to do! lol

It started on starter fluid but it also starts on gas poured into the air intake area. It is just a quick burst from the gas fumes I know. Could the spark still be weak?

I will check it when I get home. I have already replaced spark plugs.

User avatar
82aspen
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:23 pm
Location: canuck eh!
Motorcycle: 82 aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby 82aspen » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:52 pm

try normal start then pull the plugs and see if wet or dry,

i'd also check spark with a timing gun while cranking for a normal start

westgl
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Rogue river, Oregon
Motorcycle: "83' GL1100" "1984 GL1200A""1986 GL1200I" "88' GL1500" "1999 GL1500SE" "12' NC700X" "M109R" "all above are my current Bikes"

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby westgl » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:57 pm

You could eliminate the fuel pump and gas tank.

By running a new fuel line, from a bottle directly to the carbs just make sure it is higher than the carbs so that gravity can do it's job.

Once you have ruled out fuel, getting to carb then, question is, is fuel getting from carb into engine.

I agree with 82Aspen, check plugs, if dry no fuel, if wet way to much fuel, I also agree ignition or parts of it, may be weak.

Do you have spark at all four plugs? Pull all four plugs turn out all lights check for spark in the dark.

Look at how bright eack plug is sparking, are any different from the rest

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:51 pm

All good points and I appreciate the input.

I am currently rechecking the carbs. making sure there are no clogged jets, float levels are actually correct.

I think I will open the air screw up more. it says 2.5 but my son was taling to someone that mentioned opening it at least one more turn just in case.

I will check spark plugs after trying to start it but I really think it is a lack of fuel since it will fire after I try throwing gas into the air intake even after I tried starting it. But either way, I will check them for the possibility of flooding or not getting gas. Then I will check with a timing light.

I really appreciate all the information you guys give me here. I will get it running!

Steve

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:51 pm

Ok, carbs totally checked. Floats in correct. Set at 15.5mm. No clogged jets that I can see.

Reinstalled carbs, tried turning it over, #3 carbs shot fuel into the air box. Even when not pumping, fuel continued to flow until I turned fuel line off. Only happened once. The bike tried to start but that was from the fuel in the airbox.

Pulled the spark plugs. Initially the #3 & 4 were wet, #1 & 2 were dry. 3 & 4 were wet from the gas in the airbox. Once I sopped that up and retried, all cylinders were dry.

The pilot screw was only 1 1/2 turns for all three cylinders. I screwed them out to 3 1/2 which is probably overkill. Will this keep it from firing? So should I take it back down to 2 1/2 turns and try again?

It's obivous that fuel is not getting into the cylinders. I forgot to check for fuel in all the bowls, I'll do that tomorrow.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

FYI, it did fire and run briefly but that was just from the fuel in the airbox. Once that was sopped up it tried to fire a few times but I think that was from the fumes left over from the airbox.

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:28 am

Had not checked fuel pump pressure. Forgot I have a vaccuum/pressure gauge.

Put it on and tested.

Turning over, it registered 2.2psi (give or take a tiny bit due to the large scale on my gauge)

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:48 pm

Forgot to check spark yesterday.

Checked today.

Cylinders 3 & 4 have a good strong spark. They are sparking towards the end of the electrode.
Cylinders 1 & 2 are weak. They are sparking towards the curve in the electrode.

So I am getting spark but weak on two cylinders and spark plugs are dry.

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:05 pm

What are the intake runners?

Another line mentioned putting the O Rings back on the Intake Runners.

Since I have been messing with the carbs, could I have missed one? I think it's possible.

User avatar
littlebeaver
Posts: 4420
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Motorcycle: 1981 gl 1100 I , 79 Yamaha XS11
Special, 82 Kawa 750 CSR, 82 Kawa 750 LTD, 03 Kawa Nomad 1500, 99 Kawa Voyager 1200

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:04 am

Those pipe things are intake pipes and they call them runners,,,the o'ring on each end are what he is talking about.. Have you checked the 3 yellow wire plug out of the stator? Have you cleaned the ground behind the coils mounting bracket..there is a green wire there, clean it, check all plugs for cleanliness, they get crud on the metal parts that need cleaning.....Clean the ground at the frame too left side of the battery at the wire that goes to the frame via that long bolt..Mine was all rusted and such....Can't hurt a thing doing this...Did you remove your slow jets/idle jets? You have a 80 model so they are a pain to remove as they are pressed in..not screwed in..What would I do if my spark was weak???? I would cut about 3/8" off the spark wire at the coil and refasten it, Hell I would do that to all of them,,same with the plug caps..then try it again..If it's still weak after all that,,I would get different coils..But that's me...so do as you please, good luck.... :D You stated that the bike was running fine before,,probably not the idle jets..

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:19 pm

Well, today I actually started the bike so I am getting closer.

I can't start it traditionally. I need to use starter fluid to get it fired up but once running, I take it over 3000rpm it keeps running..Once it is warmed up, it can be started sometimes without starter fluid but still has to stay above 3000. It will not idle.

It is revving better since I did seal some vaccuum leaks.

One thing that I found interesting was running 3000rpm, I undid the gas cap and the bike revved to 5000+rpm. Does that mean that the gas cap is not venting properly?

Still have work but getting closer. Any suggestions appreciated.

Things I have done:
Checked fuel pump, turning over, it is 2.2psi.
Checked vaccum on all 4 cylinders, it is registering at 9.5-10.5hg. Found some leaks in the intake runners so I have those sealed now.
Replaced all 4 intake runner O rings.
Rebuilt the carbs, hopefully not missing anything when I put them back together. Randaaks is a definite next time.
Replaced fuel filter after running cleaner through the tank.
Replaced the stator (thats what started everything now).
Cleaned the green ground wire and connection near the coils.
Rechecked float levels, made sure they were at 15.5mm. Placed carbs up on an angle as suggested in Randaak site.
Replaced spark plugs.

User avatar
82aspen
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:23 pm
Location: canuck eh!
Motorcycle: 82 aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby 82aspen » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:22 am

i'd check the plugs again now that the engine is running

i've taken my gas cap off with no change at idle rpms, given what happened to you, try a cold startup/warmup/run with gascap off

i'd also play with the choke after the engine is warm to see what that might do

User avatar
littlebeaver
Posts: 4420
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Motorcycle: 1981 gl 1100 I , 79 Yamaha XS11
Special, 82 Kawa 750 CSR, 82 Kawa 750 LTD, 03 Kawa Nomad 1500, 99 Kawa Voyager 1200

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby littlebeaver » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:22 pm

Idle jets could be clogged but you said it was running fine before...Now it's not idling.. :shock:

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:28 pm

Yep, idle jets were definitely a problem. We tried pulling one out and just couldn't get it to move. So I used a alternate method of cleaning the idle jets out with carb cleaner and air pressure. Did it numerous times and success! The bike starts and idles very well.

Well, partial success. Yesterday, it wouldn't run under 3000 rpm. Today, it is having trouble getting up to 2500 rpm and over. When I blip the throttle it wants to shut down, starts loosing RPM. I turn the throttle, it actually loses RPM. If I am very careful, I can get the RPM up and there is some misfire when I get up there.

So, I have not adjusted the air screw yet, it is at 1 1/4 turns. Will adjusting that change how the bike responds in higher RPM? I do need to adjust it, just wondering if I missed something else.

It's taking time but I am getting there! Thanks again for all the help!

User avatar
littlebeaver
Posts: 4420
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Motorcycle: 1981 gl 1100 I , 79 Yamaha XS11
Special, 82 Kawa 750 CSR, 82 Kawa 750 LTD, 03 Kawa Nomad 1500, 99 Kawa Voyager 1200

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:03 am

You may have your slides hanging up, meaning they are getting stuck up and down, throttle responds is disturbed by a slide getting stuck, remove the carbs again and inspect them and look for rough spots and make sure you polish them up if you have not already, I used mothers stuff for aluminum... I would then try it again, if there is no change could be spark wires or coil or even caps...Did you check the ohm's at the plug that goes to the PG, maybe check that, I think the readings are in the manual.. Someone around here should know about this.. :D Man I'm justa a armchair mechanic dude here,,,, I'm no expert at anything.. :lol:

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:56 pm

That is a good point. Had a slide hang up pulling carbs the other day. Didn't think much of it but now I wonder. I'll pull them, clean and polish and see. Thanks!

User avatar
echinus1988
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby echinus1988 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:43 pm

Hi All,

I took my carbs apart and polished the slides and the ports. Checked each one carefully before reinstalling to make sure they slid the way they are supposed to. All four of them seemed to slide easier and move the way they should so I reinstalled them and fired the bike up. I used the Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish as suggested and it worked great! Shined them up and work better I believe. Had to correct one more vaccuum leak. An intake runner was evidently cracked and I didn't see it. While installing the carbs, it totally broke off. Bought a new one at the used motorcycle place and polished the inside of it (it was nasty) and then installed it.

Had trouble starting but could tell it was trying so I used a squirt of starter fluid and fired her right up. She was running very rough until I realized that I had not tightened the clamps around the tops of the intake runners! I did that and had her idling and blipped the throttle a few times and had her revving like she should. I had it running for a bit while I was trying to adjust the air screw as it states in the book and then I was going to sync the carbs and see if it was done and rideable.

I had a fan placed about 2 feet in front of the radiator and on high. I checked the temperature gauge often to make sure it was okay. It went to the high end but never into the red. I did some adjustments but without the right tool I am definitely haveing a problem finishing it. I will try again today to get it worked out and adjusted if I can.

The only problem I had was after it had been running for about 15-20 minutes, I revved it some to clear it and make sure it idled back to where it belonged. My antifreeze went crazy spraying out of the drain tube! Spitting and acting like it was boiling but spraying and steaming. I immediately shut down the bike, the reservoir was empty and still acting like it had overheated. This has not been a problem before. The radiator fan never turned on.

It seems I clear one problem and run head on into another. I am going to try running it again today and set the fan differently to make sure it hits the radiator the best it can. I will be checking the fan plug to make sure it is in all the way and can run the fan if it gets the signal to.

So now I am thinking stuck thermostat and/or bad fan switch? Or maybe my fan wasn't placed correctly? Or is there an easier solution I am not thinking of?

User avatar
82aspen
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:23 pm
Location: canuck eh!
Motorcycle: 82 aspencade

Re: Wont' start! Was running before.

Postby 82aspen » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:00 pm

great to hear you got the engine running, could be the coolant was low?

i'd fill start and go from there




Return to “GL1100 Information & Questions”




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo Slurp [Bot] and 5 guests