fuel and tach


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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urbanmadness
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1989 GL1500 Aspencade

fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:51 pm



I am just wondering, is there any known failure on the 1100's that would cuase fuel problems (as in getting no fuel) and at the same time make the tach not work? Or did I just get lucky and break a tach cable and lose (possibly, I'll know more this weekend) something in the fuel system.

Here's what happened, we bought the bike in Oakland and had to drive it about 90 miles home. About 20 miles into the trip, she died on the road, well almost, it was running on 2 cylinders and the tach quit working at the same time. The tach worked fine when we left Oakland. We trailered the bike back, and now it will only run on starter fluid. I think we may of plugged the pilot jets on it, but we haven't gotton that far yet.

Here's what we are going to check next. We are going to pull the hose on the pump and turn her over and see if we have fuel at the outlet of the pump. If we do, then we are going to try to "bottle feed" the engine and see if it will run. If not, looks like I'm draining a fuel tank, changing fuel lines and cleaning carbs.

My concern is, that since the pump is driven off the same area of the engine as the tach, could somehing of failed inside the engine? Is the tach gear and the pump driven off the back side of the cam (broken cam perhaps?)



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Wilcoy02
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby Wilcoy02 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:29 pm

By chance did you check the fuel petcock?

indianakid
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby indianakid » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:23 pm

i hope i am wrong....................

have you checked the cam belt on the right side ???????????????

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urbanmadness
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:36 pm

Unless it's plugged, it's not the issue. We have tried to get her running in the reserve position and on position.

Gonna start with the fuel filter, only because I just got it, and who knows when it was changed last, so I won't feel too bad about changing that.

I just hope the two problems are not related at this point. Everything else is comparatively easy to fix.

Alot of peeps probably are gonna think I'm crazy but this is my first real Motorcycle. I've been riding scooters, big huge scooters. I have a 2006 Scarabeo 500... it's 600lb scooter (yeah, it's happy in the fast lane at 70 and 75).. so I don't think the weight is gonna be a problem. Yeah the wing is heavy, but the weight is way better balanced and the clutch will give me a lot more control in parking lots. The Scarabeo is really, really top heavy and you have to really crack on the throttle to get the clutch to engage (it engages at 2300rpm), so it can be a handfull in tight parking lots. Shifting will take a little getting used to, last time I rode a bike with gears was over 20 years ago, but I think I'll be fine.

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David-Mantle
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby David-Mantle » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:00 am

The tacho drive and fuel pump are both driven from the end of the right hand head camshaft. Worse case scenario could be broken drive worm on shaft. Doubt if belt itself causing problem because they are a zero interference engine and should the belt be broken the engine would not turn.
Just a thought - hope it helps.
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Sagebrush
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby Sagebrush » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:38 am

Pull the seat and remove the fuel sensor (large circular area under the seat where the fuel sensor wires plug in). Use a flashlight and determine if you have a lot of rust in the tank. If that bike has been sitting and the tank is rusty you may have plugged everything from the tank all the way to the carb intake filters. If the tank is rusty anything you do downstream will just plug up again until the tank is taken care of.

Was the tach working and it just quit at the same time as the bike did or did it not work correctly at the beginning of your ride? My tendency would be to treat it as two separate problems until I determined otherwise.

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dingdong
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby dingdong » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:34 am

I'm betting on a broken timing belt on the right side. If so you now have, at a minimum, two bent valves. Pull the timing cover to check. Hope I'm wrong but..................
Tom

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WingAdmin
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:48 am

The fuel will gravity feed without the fuel pump running, but only if the tank is quite full. When the level of the fuel in the tank gets down to the near level of the carbs, it requires the pump to keep running.

So the answer is yes, the tachometer drive and the fuel pump are both driven off the rear of the right camshaft. It's possible the drive has sheared. But the fact that you said it sounded like it was running on two cylinders very likely means you broke the right timing belt. This will cause the engine to run on only the left two cylinders. Unfortunately, being an interference engine, this also means that you WILL have damage in the engine - at best a couple of bent valves, at worst, punctured pistons, broken connecting rods, and residual damage throughout the engine from metal sprayed around it.

Image

Pull the right valve cover off - see How to adjust your valve clearances for directions on doing this. Gently tap the engine over with the starter, and watch the exposed valvetrain. If the valves don't move, then you have definitely broken a timing belt.

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urbanmadness
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:42 pm

yup, it's a belt... pulled the fuel pump drive, turned over the engine, and the back of the cam wasn't turning over... pulled the valve cover and sure enough, two bent exhaust valves.

Tomorrow we are going to pull the head and take a look and see if we punched the pistons.

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Re: fuel and tach

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:57 pm

Sorry to hear it - let us know how it looks when you get it apart.

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urbanmadness
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:44 pm

I pulled the head over the weekend. The good news, the Pistons are is really good shape. The cylinders look really good too, they still have the cross hatch patterns visible. The bad news, the PO didn't show the bike much love, the engine is a real grease pig so I'm cleaning her up. I'm probably going to have more time in cleaning up everything then the actual mechanical work. Priced gaskets and etc.

Now, do I need to replace the head bolts? Are the head gaskets the same for both sides?

The other bad news... My Honda Ridgeline maintenance minder decided to tell me it's timing belt time... Joy... looks like it's gonna be a party.

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1fastgl1100
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby 1fastgl1100 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:51 pm

the gaskets are the same, advice: buy OEM Honda gaskets! donk go cheap and buy knockoffs as those will cause you problems down the road. head bolts can be reused as long as they look good (not bent or stripped) and use correct torque pattern. be careful and check everything twice then check it again just to be safe.

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urbanmadness
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:57 am

A way overdue update.... Got a new head off of ebay, and then didn't roll the motor to TDC before installing it, figured, I'd just back off the rocker adjusters then roll it to TDC, big mistake.... I bent the intakes (opps)... anyway, ordered some new valves, and valve seals, and me and a buddy lapped them in, and we got her running Saturday. Starter didn't even go a full rev before she fired up and started running, without even the choke... Had to replace an intake o-ring today, one got pinched but she's running well.

So, My first motorcycle is on the road. Not a good bike for a noob, but, I'll survive, I actually think the 1500 is a more forgiving bike to ride then the 1100. I ride a 500lbs scooter now, so it's not like I'm a total noob but I'm not very graceful on the wing yet.

I have only one problem left, that needs to be addressed. I'm running hot according to the gauge if it idles for two long, it gets into the red zone. Then the fan kicks in after it's in the red zone... The bike doesn't smell hot, it doesn't run like it's hot, and it starts like it should, even when the gauge says it's hot... I'm wondering if the gauge is lying. The bike has a poorboy alternator conversion, and according to the volt meter, I drop to about 9volts or so when idling. I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it as well. My idle speed may be just a tad on the low side, and the battery does needs to be replaced, (Payday is friday, woohoo, gonna spend some money on the wing). The bike isn't even burning off the gunk that's all over the motor which is something I'd think it would do, if it was running that hot and no loss of power either, it runs really consistent. Their is no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the exhaust, and no coolant in the oil, so I'm sure I haven't blown a head gasket or anything.

Is there a good way to find out just how warm it's running other then the gauge?

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WingAdmin
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:15 am

It's should never get into the red zone, ever, so I'm wondering if the sender might be out - or the 7 volt regulator. Is your fuel gauge also reading high? It could be that the 7 volt regulator has failed, and it's making both gauges read high. See: Goldwing 7 volt regulator

I also wonder about your 9 volt reading with the Poorboy. Put a digital voltmeter on the battery terminals and read the voltage there, make sure what you're seeing is actually accurate.

As for reading temperature, I like to use an infrared thermometer pointing at the radiator. That's also a good way to check for radiator blockage (you can check to see how the temperature changes across the surface of the radiator).

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urbanmadness
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:01 pm

The battery is totally toast, wouldn't even start this morning, so I'm pretty sure the voltage reading is pretty spot on. The po had boiled the batt running an unregulated charger on it. I tried to reserect it (three cells were very low on water)... I added distilled water but I think it had gone on for two long, the three cells that were low on water had almost half the plates exposed. Last night when I parked it, the instrument lights were very dim, until I gave her a little throttle, on the road the voltages raise to where they need to be and low and behold I'm half scale on the temp gauge. The voltage reg in the alternator might be going bad too, hard to say at this point. So, the low voltage might be giving the 7 volt reg in the dash fits. Just changing the battery might clear alot of this stuff up. So far I've riden it about 45 miles.

I will still check it with a meter tho, and make sure all the grounds are good.

Tonight, it's gonna be about putting my charger back on it, and cleaning all the oil off her belly.

Thank you so much for the reply. I'm just sooooo stoked it's running. I got so lucky, one of the guys I know is an old motorcycle mechanic, and really has a soft spot for goldwings. He had tools I needed (valve compressor) and offered alot of advice. He even lapped the valves in for me, and showed me a few tricks. Then he hand made a radiator hose for it... The guy was just awesome.

I did most of the mechanics on the bike, myself, so it's quite a sense of accomplishment. I changed the head, did the belts, and put her all back together. The engine just runs so smooth. Just a slight rattle if I bog it a little off the line so, it probably could use a little carb sync action. I did adjust all the valves when I had it apart and that usually when you sync the carbs, but it's pretty dang close, cause it sounds really good, and it really smooth. 4000 rpms in tunnels will just raise goosebumps on the nape of your neck... it's music, I tell ya!

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Re: fuel and tach

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:48 pm

The clue to the bad 7 volt regulator is that both the temperature and fuel gauges will read incorrectly - they'll either both read zero, or (more commonly) read extremely high. If they're both reading high, don't let it run like that for too long, as letting the full 12 volts into the meters (which will happen if the bike is hot or the fuel is high when the 7 volt regulator is bad) can damage the gauges themselves.

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urbanmadness
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:49 pm

Ok... Can't tell with the fuel gauge yet, as the bike has a full tank, right now. Maybe I should drain half the tank and see what the guage does.

It might be something to change just to be sure and to make sure I don't damage the guages. The cluster on this bike is in really good shape and I'd hate it if I ruined it.

The bike has pretty good bones, but the electrical is gonna need a little lovin'.

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urbanmadness
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Re: fuel and tach

Postby urbanmadness » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:42 am

Turned out, it was a bad thermostat. It was weak. Changed it, and it's acting much better. did get a little warm on saturday, but it was also 100 degrees out and I may of still had some air working it's way out. Yesterday and today, running mid range or just a little lower.

So the 1982, 500 dollar Berkley wing is up and running and running well.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Ray




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