engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy


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roadwanderer2
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engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:13 pm



ok ppl's, here's a new topic for ya's.
i was wondering, can i swap a complete engine from an '80 GL1100 interstate to my '83 GL1100 aspy without much problems, IE: electrical, clutch, drive shaft, etc, etc. my aspy motor has almost 100,000 miles on it and its just starting to have a slight engine vibration under a hard throttle load at low speeds in 3rd, 4th and OD. now, i have a chance to pick up a motor from an '80 interstate, (used of course), with only 39,000 miles on it and the compression is at 190 psi on all 4 cylinders for around $600 bucks. do ya's think it would be easy swap to put this motor with much less miles on my bike while i have the original engine off for a rebuild, then once its finished, put my original motor back on my bike and keep this other one as a "spare" or for parts.

any comments would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.



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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby Fatwing Chris » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:14 am

You sure you just don't have a u-joint going out or something else in the driveline?These motors aren't usually ready for a rebuild at 100 k unless it's been badly abused.They're built to go 300 k without opening then up.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:24 am

hey fatwing:

that's a good question. i never thought about that. that's something i'll have to check because there is a little "slop" when im shifting gears, but no banging from it, but why only in the upper gears and not in every gear? could it be possible that the timing belts or an internal engine part could be wearing out like a cam lobe or a timing belt or belt tensioner? when i got this bike it already had 88,000 miles on it and the previous owner really didn't take to care of it, so, im just looking at possibilities of things that could be going wrong with it. i don't want to be stuck out on the road in the middle of nowhere with a busted motor.

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby Sagebrush » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:55 am

It might be your riding style. These engines like RPMs and you might need to downshift sooner or more often than you are currently doing to prevent lugging. On an 1100 you probably need to keep the RPMs above 2k maybe even 2.5k for best results. I know guys with thousands of miles on their GL1000s and absolutely won't let the engine get below 3k.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:19 pm

hey sagebrush, you have a good point with that. the only time i do feel the bike "lugging" is at lower rpm's and in 3rd, 4th and OD and going around turns and curves, and when i DO downshift, it stops doing it. i DO have to downshift quite a lot, especially in traffic if im going under 35mph and in 3,4 or OD. ok, i guess i'll have to change my driving habits and keep the rpm's up by using lower gears when in traffic, turning and going around curves at slow speeds. if have you taken your bike on the "dragon", since you live in NC, you know how slow you need to go around some of those curves so you understand what im talking about. i was on it yesterday and that's when i noticed the motor felt like it was under a lot of strain, even in 2nd gear i felt it "groaning", then i shifted into 1st and it stopped.
now let me ask another question..........when i take off from a standing start with slight throttle, i get a lot of "rattling" coming from the bottom front of the motor. is this something i should be concerned about. it almost sounds like a clutch rattle, but from the front of the motor. could it be loose belts, tensioners, oil pump chain rattle? its very loud and annoying.

stuart.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:58 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:now let me ask another question..........when i take off from a standing start with slight throttle, i get a lot of "rattling" coming from the bottom front of the motor. is this something i should be concerned about. it almost sounds like a clutch rattle, but from the front of the motor. could it be loose belts, tensioners, oil pump chain rattle? its very loud and annoying.


That is the rattle of the primary chain, a huge, wide chain that connects the engine crankshaft to the input shaft of the transmission - basically it connects the engine to the transmission.

When the engine produces unbalanced power pulses at low RPM, this chain vibrates and makes a horrible noise that sounds like marbles rattling around in the crankcase. The best way to fix it is to do a carb sync. When the carbs are out of sync, at low throttle/RPM each cylinder is putting out a little bit different amount of power, and this sets up the vibration in the primary chain. Sync the carbs, and the engine will feel much smoother, and the rattle will go away.

Also make sure you aren't "lugging" the engine at low RPM - the more power you apply at low RPM, the worse this rattle will be.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:41 pm

hey wingadmin:

ok, that's good to know about the primary chain, and your right, i does make a LOUD rattling sound. it sounds like the entire engine is ready to blow apart lol. im sure the carbs do need to be resynchronized because its running extremely rich to the point of when i let off the throttle after hard excelaration, i can smell raw fuel coming up from the back of the bike, and its worse when i pull into my garage and go to shut the bike off, its so bad, it makes my eyes burn, and if i put a finger inside the tailpipe and rub against it, it comes out black. before i take it down to Florida in June, im going to take it to the shop and let them do the carb sync, reset the valves, and change all the fluids, make sure the bike is in good shape for its 2500 mile ride....BTW, i have a couple pics of me on it riding the dragon yesterday in my photo gallery :D.

stuart, a.k.a roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:46 pm

oh, one thing i forgot to mention, if your wondering about the new trunk that i recently put on my bike in those pics, its from an '86 Kawasaki ZG1200 voyager vii that i adapted to the stock Honda luggage rack. :D

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby Sagebrush » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:52 am

I would get the overly rich condition of your carbs straightened out before I put much effort into any other performance maintenance. It could account for a lot of what you are complaining about. If you are not up to doing carbs on your own contact Pistol Pete a certified GL1000 and GL1100 carb guru. He's in the Knoxville area so you might just be able to ride over and get a valuation of what you need. Something that the rest of us are too far away to take advantage of.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:11 am

good mornin sage:

pistol Pete? lol, sounds like a cartoon character lol. i'll do a bing search on him and send him an email and find out when and if he has time to check my bike.

thanks for the info.

stuart.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 am

I agree - one carb running rich will definitely set up an imbalance that syncing will not fix. Carb sync is extremely dependent on everything else in the fuel system, so it should always be the very last thing you do. Do your carb work, adjustments, overhauls, whatever - and then once it is on the bike, do the carb sync. Every little thing you change will affect carb sync, so make sure all changes are done before the sync.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:03 pm

hey wingadmin:

ok, im gonna put this as str8 forward as possible. i cant do this, period. its too involved for me. i don't have the knowledge, or the tools to do it with either. it was hard enough to remove the carbs off of my silverwing i had let alone trying to take these carbs off and do the work. i tried once to rebuild the carbs on an '84 Honda v30 magna, and it never ran again, so i REALLY don't want to take this engine apart in fear of never getting to run right or run at all again.

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:52 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:hey wingadmin:

ok, im gonna put this as str8 forward as possible. i cant do this, period. its too involved for me. i don't have the knowledge, or the tools to do it with either. it was hard enough to remove the carbs off of my silverwing i had let alone trying to take these carbs off and do the work. i tried once to rebuild the carbs on an '84 Honda v30 magna, and it never ran again, so i REALLY don't want to take this engine apart in fear of never getting to run right or run at all again.

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.


The carb sync doesn't require any disassembly at all - and in fact, it HAS to be done with the engine all together.

The previous poster's recommendation of using Pistol Pete is right on - he's reliable, trustworthy, and knows what he's doing when it comes to four-cylinder Wing carbs. You'll find him here: http://www.oldwings.com/

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby Sagebrush » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:01 pm

Click the link in my post, it will take you to Pistol Pete's web page. For a well documented (with many pictures) carb removal procedure click here Roady's carb removal procedure. Pete offers a carb rebuild for 1100s at a reasonable price. He normally gets his carbs from owners in a box. For an additional fee he may take off yours. I don't know if he offers this service. He guarantees his work and even syncs the carbs on a test engine he has. I've used his services and I can recommend him.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:40 pm

hey guys, (wingadmin and sage), i just replied to an email from pistolpete. IF i bring my bike to him, just to evaluate it is gonna cost $50 bucks, to remove the carbs off the bike is $100.00, rebuilding them will be almost $500, and putting them back on the bike is another $100.00. geez, bye the time im finished with this, it'll cost me almost a thousand bucks. :shock: :cry: he did however give me a link for removing instructions that im gonna take a look at and maybe i'll be able to get someone to help me take these carbs off. i really don't want to do this, but i guess im gonna have to...........unless someone from in here that lives close is willing to help me. at this point im even willing to pay someone to help me. it wont be much, but it'll be something. im just not sure if i can do this myself that's all. don't get me wrong, i really appreciate all your input with this. i hope im not sounding like some idiot or being a pain in the a** about it. if this was a car, id have NO problems ripping this thing apart and rebuilding it from wheel to wheel, but this something I've gotten myself involved with once before and it didn't end well. i wound up junking a nice 83 Honda vt30 magna because i tried to rebuild the carbs myself and destroyed the motor. this motor is larger, and how can i say..... more intimidating?

stuart.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby Sagebrush » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:01 pm

If you're going to ride this vintage of a motorcycle you're going to have to get familiar with both your toolbox and your bike. Lots of help on this site and others. Just takes a little pluck.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:29 pm

hey sage.

a little pluck? LOL, and tools? i have all the metric tools i need, IE: sockets, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" drives, sae AND metric, open and box wrenches from 1/4" up to 1/1/2" sae and from 4mm up to 24mm. tools aren't a problem. lets see, so far for bike, i've put on both front and rear tires with nothing except for 3 Flathead screwdrivers as pry bars, did all the brake pads and caliper rebuilding front and rear myself, installed a new exhaust system myself, changed the plugs, wires, oil, filter, again by myself, rear shocks, swapped out the rear trunk, rewired the rear bumper lights, new ignition switch, radio, windshield, drivers floorboards with heel-toe shifter, again all by myself.....these are minor things as far as im concerned, but tearing into the motor is something different. i could even do a head gasket replacement on this motor if i had to, but taking off the carbs is a little more involved other than just a "little plucking" wouldn't you say? from what i read in the carb removal instructions, there's a lot that has to come off this bike before i can even GET to the carbs themselves. the fairing, radiator, plug wires, throttle cables, choke cable and a few other things. 22 steps in all to get these carbs off the motor. this is something a little more than i wanted to tackle alone. like i said earlier, the last bike i took the carbs off of to rebuild wound up in the junk yard, and i don't want to have the same thing happen to this one.

stuart.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:38 pm

ok guys, im frazzled, im shutting this computer down for the night. any new posts to this topic will be answered by me in the morning. y'all have a good evening and i'll chat with ya's tomorrow.

night night,

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby spiralout » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:17 am

If you've done all the things you listed, carb removal should be simple task. But you don't need to remove them anyway unless you have reason to believe it needs a rebuild. Mixture adjustment and sync need to be done with carbs installed and running. Do those first before you decide whether a rebuild is needed and keep those rpms up! Don't ride around under 35mph in 3rd 4th 5th.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:58 am

good morning ppl's.

spiralout, according to wingadmin, carb syncing is the last thing to do. he suggests i have them rebuilt first THEN resynchronize them, but your right about the rpm's. i took the bike out yesterday and tried to rethink my engine's habits and my riding methods, and yes, this motor is much happier with higher rpm's. around my area, the speed limits are very low, 15 (school zones), 25, and 30mph (residential streets). i used 1st gear for the school zones and 2nd and 3rd for the residential streets. the bike performed much better. as for the mixtures and sync's on the carbs, im gonna take the bike to the shop and let them do it, that hopefully will make it run a little leaner as apposed to running very rich now. like i said, the repairs and replacements i've already done to this bike were relatively easy, everything was more or less out in the open and easy to get to, with the exception of the LCD instrument cluster, THAT was a pain to replace. i removed and replaced it without taking the faring off the bike. someone vandalized the bike before i got it and broke the clear face plate off it, so i had to replace it with one from another bike with only 33,000 miles on it. the only thing i didn't swap out was the odometer, but i kept the old one so i know exactly how many miles are on the bike. i'll eventually put the original one back on, but for now, im gonna let it be as it is.

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby spiralout » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:04 pm

I don't think WingAdmin was recommending a rebuild, just pointing out that a sync should be done after any other carb work/adjustments. Sounds to me like you have the mechanical skills to tackle the job yourself. You'd save a lot of cash that way and get the satisfaction of knowing your classic bike that much better.
When I got my first GL I never the rpms get over about 3.5k worrying about the fact it was a 30+ year old bike and was really disappointed in its performance. I was wrong. As long as your belts are newish, you're not going to break anything in these motors by making them scream.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:57 pm

hey spiral:

see, that's just it, this bike has almost 95,000 miles on it now, and number 1, i have no idea of the condition of the belts are, because know for a fact the the last owner never took care of it properly, IE: all the work i had to do to get it straightened out, let me just give you an example of how the former owner "fixed" one of the problems with it.....somehow he broke the ignition key, so instead of replacing the ignition switch, he cut all the wires going to, (including the front brake switch wires), cut a hole on the right side of the fairing and put a car ignition switch in it, leaving me with a birds nest mess of wires to trace and reconnect when i installed the correct switch back to where it was suppose to be along with the front brake switch wires. now im wondering if i shouldn't go ahead and replace the belts and tensioners first, or just give it another tune up and have the valves adjusted and the carbs synced and leave it alone and just enjoy riding it.

this coming June, i want to ride it down to the Florida keys without find myself stranded on the side of the road, especially in alligator alley with a dead engine. i don't feel like becoming "gator bait" LOL.

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby Old Fogey » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:25 pm

Belts are absolutely the FIRST thing to replace, before you do anything else. Going by your description of the 'maintenance' done by the PO my guess it that they are looooooooooooonnnnnnnnng overdue for replacement. Rock Auto or NAPA can supply you at about $13 a belt. Cheapest insurance you can buy!

I've got a real nice set of 82-83 1100 carbs for sale but I guess the shipping from the UK might be a deal killer.I think I can ship to you for about $75 (no insurance). Insurance is usually worked on 5% of the total value.

http://www.wingovations.com/#/gl1100-re ... 4566133111

Pm or email me if interested.
John
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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:55 pm

hi there old fogey:

yeah, i was thinking about doing a belt replacement along with the belt tensioners. im sure they could use to be replaced. im not sure what the PO did for this bike, but it was a mess when i first got it. purely was NOT taken care of like it should have been. the first thing i did when i got it was change the fluids, the oil was pitch black as was the filter, the air filter was all clogged up with bugs, dirt, and some fuel residue, the s/plugs were worn all the way down to the cores although they were burned down clean and the fuel filter was so bad, it was hardly putting any fuel thru it to the fuel pump. just changing those few things made a huge improvement on the performance of the bike. i WOULD like to get the carbs worked on, but right now, its financially imposable. it would take me a couple of months to save up enough to do it beings im on a fixed income, so i just have to do what i can do with it and hope it lasts a little while longer. in the mean time, its running as well as i can get it, and its getting somewhere between 30-35mpg, which for this bike given its age, mileage and known maintenance record, isn't too shabby. my only complaints right now are the primary chain rattle on takeoff, the exhaust is a little louder than i would like it to be, and the rich fuel smell i get when i ride it into my garage to shut it off.

stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Re: engine swap for an '83 GL1100 aspy

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:54 pm

Old Fogey wrote:Belts are absolutely the FIRST thing to replace, before you do anything else. Going by your description of the 'maintenance' done by the PO my guess it that they are looooooooooooonnnnnnnnng overdue for replacement. Rock Auto or NAPA can supply you at about $13 a belt. Cheapest insurance you can buy!

fogey, your right about rock auto, their prices for the timing belts are great. next month im ordering 2 of them so i can replace the ones that are currently on my bike. it was nice talking with you on the phone, that was the last thing i expected lol.

we'll talk some more about those carbs in the near future, but im going to replace the belts first.

stuart, a.k.a roadwanderer2.




Pm or email me if interested.
John




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