Rear brake problems


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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echinus1988
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Rear brake problems

Postby echinus1988 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:57 pm



Just when I think I have it figured out, something happens to remind me that I don't.

On my 1980 Goldwing I have had no major problems since I got it running.

Now, suddenly, my rear brakes are dragging bad.

I have been looking at the posts but haven't found the problem yet. The symptoms are:

When cool, the brakes work fine. But the minute they get warm (hot) the rear brake starts clamping down on the rotor. I know about the return port and when I was repairing the bike I took apart the rear master cylinder and rebuilt it. I made sure the little hole was cleaned thoroughly to avoid problems with it. Replaced all brake fluid with new clean fluid.

I have had the bike out on many long rides and had no issues until just a few days ago. It was the warmest day I have been out. The brakes started dragging, I was stranded but as soon as they cooled off, no problems and I could ride it again. Got home, found they were dragging again.

I read the reponse about a BMW doing the same thing and it was a lack of free play in the brake pedal. I can find nothing on proper brake pedal height adjustment so I am winging it (no pun intended) and trying to get it set in case it is the fluid expanding and pushing against the brake pedal. I have tried numerous adjustments, none seem to work.

Do I need to take apart the master cylinder? If so, why is it only when the brakes heat up?

Any help will be appreciated. The good weather has been here all week and I haven't been able to ride. Sunday brings snow so I want to get it out tomorrow if I can.

Thanks.



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Sidcar
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby Sidcar » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:32 am

Are the pads free to move in the calliper, are the slide pins free, is the piston in the calliper free?
It's not unknown for the piston to stick when it gets hot causing the brake to bind.

Sid

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dingdong
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby dingdong » Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:44 am

When the brakes are binding open the bleed valve and check if the brakes release.
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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SteveB123
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby SteveB123 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:46 am

Unless you can prove otherwise, assume the brakes are untouched. I just went through mine, and while maybe the fronts were bled at one time, the rears hadn't been opened since they left the factory.
Ugh.
Corrosion in the seal grooves effectively compresses the seals against the pistons, rendering the calipers next to useless.

Luckily, caliper rebuilds are easy and effective...easier than the master, that's for sure.
Current:82 GL1100 Interstate, 60 Amp Poorboy, MSD coil
Previous: 93 GSX1100F Katana
82 GL500 Silverwing

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echinus1988
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Location: Denver, Colorado
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 Aspencade

Re: Rear brake problems

Postby echinus1988 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:15 pm

Thank you guys.

I have decided to order in a rebuild kit. I cleaned it but didn't have the kit. At the same time I will take the master cylinder apart again, clean it, make sure I rebuilt it correctly and cleaned all the ports.

I am hoping that will resolve my problems. Gotta remember to never get in a hurry, order what I need and do it right!

Steve

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Winger 99
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby Winger 99 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:53 pm

Had this problem years ago with my 82 bought it used in 94 or so,found rear brakes dragging when trying to push it backward.I removed the brake caliper and found that the fluid was probally never changed rusty fluid and piston.Popped out the piston cleaned it up with fine sandpaer added new fluid and never had a problem until i crashed it 3yrs later. lol it was a sad day. But then again it got me a new one in 99 so all is good.

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Wilcoy02
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby Wilcoy02 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:52 pm

Check your rotors. Is it warped?

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BikerBuck
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1983 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby BikerBuck » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:21 am

Pull up on the brake peddle, it's probably corroded on the pivot shaft.

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echinus1988
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby echinus1988 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:43 am

I want to thank everyone for the advice. The rebuild kit came in. I cleaned, polished the rear caliper and put in the new parts and the brake works like me. Had it out from 9-11 PM tonight. Great ride!

serstrom
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100A Aspencade

Re: Rear brake problems

Postby serstrom » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:00 pm

I have an 83 GL1100A Aspencade with the integrated braking system. I was traveling down the interstate at 80 mph about a week ago, and all of a sudden the rear brakes began to drag. Within a mile of the first notice of drag, I exited the interstate and when I reached the stop sign at the end of the off ramp, the rear wheel was locked to the point I could not move the bike at all. I disconnected the push rod from the brake pedal and pulled it downward in the opposite direction that the brake pedal operates it. This released the brakes and allowed the bike to again free wheel. I left the push rod disconnected and rode the bike home about 90 miles. Upon inspection of the problem at home with the bike on its center stand and rear wheel in motion, when brake pedal (now reattached to push rod) is activated, the rear caliper seems to work properly by watching the pistons move in and out with the pedal movement. However, the brakes again began to drag to the point of killing the engine while in 1st gear and idling. I rebuilt this caliper a couple of years ago after discovering that the corrosion on the pistons would not even let the pistons move. All has been good since until now. Because of the integrated braking system, if this issue is with my master cylinder, why do the front brakes not also have the same issue as the rear? I also flushed the entire brake system and added new fluid and bled the brakes. The problem continues. Is the rear caliper not releasing properly, and in need of another overhaul?

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:31 am

There's a little port in the master cylinder that allows fluid to return from the caliper. Sometimes, when brakes grab or drag, it is discovered that the port is blocked with "gunk" and cleaning it out will alleviate the trouble. A guitar string of smallish diameter is usually stiff enough to clear the obstruction.. you can take it all apart and clean it for the best results.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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WingAdmin
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:20 am

I would also suspect a blocked return port, but you might have a problem with the proportioning valve too. Is your front wheel getting any braking force from the use of the rear brake?

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:28 am

Did the 1980 have linked brakes?

WingAdmin wrote:I would also suspect a blocked return port, but you might have a problem with the proportioning valve too. Is your front wheel getting any braking force from the use of the rear brake?
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

serstrom
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby serstrom » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:34 am

I will look into this further this weekend. I know that when I bled the brakes there was plenty of pressure at the caliper of the front wheel. Never checked to see if it was providing stopping power. Admittedly, my focus at the time was on the rear brake caliper.
I will start with that idea and then move on to the other suggestion of the plugged port in the master cylinder.
I greatly appreciate both of your guys' responses, I do all my own work to this bike, and appreciate outside advice from other owners and mechanics.
Will keep you updated.
Thanks again.

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WingAdmin
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:41 am

HawkeyeGL1200 wrote:Did the 1980 have linked brakes?

WingAdmin wrote:I would also suspect a blocked return port, but you might have a problem with the proportioning valve too. Is your front wheel getting any braking force from the use of the rear brake?


No, 1983 was the first year for this.

serstrom
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby serstrom » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:32 pm

Worked on the brake issue tonight. The front brake is receiving braking power from the pedal as well. Removed the master cylinder and found "gunk" in the inflow and return ports. Was unable to get the piston out, so reassembled and tested again. With bike on center stand, after bleeding brakes, put bike in first gear and began to operate the brake pedal. Was working well and thought the problem had been fixed , then the rear brakes again began to drag. Disappointing to say the least! Operated until the rear wheel locked solid. Checked to see if the front wheel was also locked. Sure enough, it is also locked. This to me is good news! Should mean that the proportional valve is working properly and that the issue is in the master cylinder. Will disassemble tomorrow and use air on the fluid outlet of the master cylinder to force the piston out so that proper cleanup can be done. Assuming that the piston chamber is coated with this "gunk", and it plugged the return port again after multiple pedal strokes. Will post my findings when work is completed. Good news is that there is a repair kit available, if I discover component damage.

serstrom
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby serstrom » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:40 pm

Ok. Here's my findings.... Removed the master cylinder and disassembled it. Found a tiny bit of "gunk" in the spiral of the piston. Thoroughly cleaned all parts and blew any debris or cleaning solution away with air. Reassembled and bled brakes. Cycled brake pedal about 30 times with bike in 1st gear and on center stand. No drag noticed. Walked away to get riding gear. Came back to test drive and could not move the bike. Both front and rear wheels locked solid. Loosened the brake line from master cylinder to compensator valve at the master cylinder. Pressure released from both front and rear brakes and allowed bike to free wheel again. Took for 4 mile test drive. Never used the brake pedal and brakes began to drag about a mile from returning home. Stopped and released pressure again as before and made it home safely.
So any ideas out there?

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:46 pm

Did you clear the fluid return port in the reservoir? No mention of it in your replies.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

serstrom
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby serstrom » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:52 pm

Return port in reservoir is clean... Reservoir is cleaned and supply hose has been cleaned as well.

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Sidcar
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby Sidcar » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:19 am

Have you checked the brake lines. It is possible for the interior of a line to collapse acting as a valve not letting the fluid back. If it is a line then it would have to be right up by the master cylinder.

Sid

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patbrandon1
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Re: Rear brake problems

Postby patbrandon1 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:34 am

Did you clear out the return port hole with a small piece of wire such as the bristle of a wire brush or a guitar high E string? I would try that again and do it about 3 or 4 times. Also replace every drop of brake fluid only AFTER you replace the brake lines. I would go with stainless steel braided lines. But there is something blocking the fluid from returning, and I suspect that the inside of your lines are breaking down. It happens more frequently than people think, and even on cars.

There is a phenomenon called flapping where the rubber brake line deteriorates to the point of creating a flap like tear in on the inside of the line, and the fluid will only flow one way. Almost like a flow control valve. But keep in mind, the pressure to force the brakes to activate is a lot. There is virtually NO pressure returning the fluid once pressure is released, they return by vibration, and lack of pressure. So in order for that to happen freely, those little holes and lines MUST be totally obstruction free.

Here is what happened to a '69 Chevy Pickup I recently repaired a brake problem on. The guy said he replaced the master cylinder because when he was sitting at idle, his pedal would slowly start going down. And his brakes would lock up intermittently. The master replacement made no change, and the brakes still locked up. Luckily I had seen this two previous times. WHY was the pedal going down slowly while idling at a stop if the master isn't shot, you may ask? It is that flapper phenomenon. Once the brakes were applied, there was enough pressure being allowed by to engage the cylinders, but not totally. And they would lock up because the fluid wasn't being allowed to return properly. While holding his foot on the brake at a stop in idle, there was more pressure being applied, thus allowing more fluid past the obstruction, and giving the feeling of losing pedal. I replace both front brake line hoses, ($9.00 each), cleaned out the lines totally, and replace all the fluid. It now works as it should. After I fixed it, I took the hoses and tried to blow 120 pounds of compressed air through them. As I wasn't able to blow through them with my mouth when I first took them off and wanted to test them. One side, the side not hanging up, would allow, in my estimation, about half of the pressure through. The side hanging up would not allow any of the air pressure through.

I wrote this just so others know. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen, and can cause even the smartest repair person to cross their eyes in bewilderment. Change the rubber brake hoses on your car EVERY time you do a brake job. It will save you time later.

So if you have read to this point, you might get the picture that brake lines, and the little, teeny, tiny, miniscule, return port hole, on these Wings, MUST be TOTALLY clean. I go so far when working on Goldwings, as to remove the calipers, and making sure EVERY drop of old fluid is GONE. It will work its way back into that return port eventually if there is even a spec of crud in the fluid. Something isn't letting your fluid back, and it is either because of what i described, or a ghost. Happy Halloween.

Please keep us posted.




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