timing belt


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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krazni
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:44 pm
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1981 GL1100 Interstate
Previously owned:
1976 GL1000, dressed with Vetter

timing belt

Postby krazni » Mon May 05, 2014 3:02 pm



First the question. I can't find anything in the How-To articles for the 1100 about replacing the timing belts. I'm sure there IS one, but it successfully hid from me.

Now the situation: My bike wouldn't crank, but the starter was trying. It sounded like something had blocked the crank in place, but I could feel the starter trying to turn it over. Then after about 5 tries it did spin -- and then sounded like it hit something, like metal on metal. Hard! BUMMER!! I went inside and pouted. :evil:

Later I tried to crank it again, and it spun freely. But it won't even attempt to start, not even with starter fluid, not even a cough. I have pulled the valve covers, and all the valves are moving. I pulled the timing belt covers, and need to know how to check and see if the timing is right.

The only other symptom I have so far is that there is good compression on all cylinders except #3. And once, while checking to see if the valves were moving it backfired (very small) once.

Any ideas? Replace the engine with a cheap used one?? :lol:



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virgilmobile
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Re: timing belt

Postby virgilmobile » Mon May 05, 2014 3:28 pm

On the left side upper rear engine block,you'll find a LARGE flat head cap...take it off...As you turn the crank by hand,you will see marks show up in the hole....Stop when you see T1 in the hole....At the cam sprockets..each one is marked with a "up"...if there not up,rotate the crank again to T1....
With both "up"...to each side there is a marker that should align exactly with a casting mark...

If you find that even one cam is more than 2 teeth off,it is very likely that a valve were bent....
This is the most likely cause of the "hit something" noise and now low compression....

Not too horrible we hope...a new valve,head gasket and belts might be all that's needed....

I'll bounce you over here for a good review i've used.http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/10- ... orial.html

Take pictures and let us know what you find....

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krazni
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:44 pm
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1981 GL1100 Interstate
Previously owned:
1976 GL1000, dressed with Vetter

Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Mon May 05, 2014 6:36 pm

virgilmobile wrote:On the left side upper rear engine block,you'll find a LARGE flat head cap...take it off...As you turn the crank by hand,you will see marks show up in the hole....Stop when you see T1 in the hole....At the cam sprockets..each one is marked with a "up"...if there not up,rotate the crank again to T1....
With both "up"...to each side there is a marker that should align exactly with a casting mark...

If you find that even one cam is more than 2 teeth off,it is very likely that a valve were bent....
This is the most likely cause of the "hit something" noise and now low compression....

Not too horrible we hope...a new valve,head gasket and belts might be all that's needed....

I'll bounce you over here for a good review i've used.http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/10- ... orial.html

Take pictures and let us know what you find....


Thanks, Virgilmobile, for the guidance and that link to the timing belts. I checked the timing, and both sides are dead-on. Just for kicks I checked the compression again with my finger over the hole, and 1, 2, and 4 are very strong; #3 feels non-existent. I had adjusted the valves about 500 miles ago, and right now both I and E valves on #3 are opening and closing at the right times with the right amount of gap.

This "crank and clunk" scenario has happened twice before in the past 9K miles, and there was a couple thousand miles between each time. :o And each time it happened the engine has then cranked fine and started right up. I average about 500 miles a week, and the engine has been smooth and seemed strong. MPG has been between 45 and 51 depending on how I ride it.

What puzzles me is that the engine spins free but won't even attempt to fire with 3 seemingly-good cylinders. But then that's probably a good thing, huh? ;)

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virgilmobile
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Re: timing belt

Postby virgilmobile » Mon May 05, 2014 9:13 pm

Assuming that the compression is non existent with a wide open throttle,it has to be going somewhere.
In my garage,the next step is to find out where.
I would rig up a way to connect compressed air to a spark plug adaptor.
Hold the engine at the top of the compression stroke and apply 30 psi or so on the line.
I assume it will not hold the compressed air and want to leak out.
With a piece of hose to the ear,you can quickly determine if its coming out the exhaust,intake or the crankcase.
This will tell you where it's leaking and what might be wrong.
Perhaps a sticking valve or carbon buildup under a valve..???
Do all this with no spark.Get the compression problem fixed then worry about the spark and carbs.

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krazni
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Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Mon May 05, 2014 9:56 pm

thanks for the suggestion -- I'll give that a try tomorrow. The (bad) thought that crossed my mind was that a broken connecting rod or something like that is the only thing that seems to fit the symptoms, at least to me. What do you think?

Anyway, I was thinking that I'd put a broom straw in through the spark plug hole and see if the piston is moving when I turn it by hand.

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82aspen
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Re: timing belt

Postby 82aspen » Tue May 06, 2014 12:30 am

hopefully not a hydrolock bent rod scenario

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virgilmobile
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Re: timing belt

Postby virgilmobile » Tue May 06, 2014 7:24 am

Take pictures.Keep us posted.

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krazni
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Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Thu May 08, 2014 7:45 am

virgilmobile wrote:Assuming that the compression is non existent with a wide open throttle,it has to be going somewhere.
In my garage,the next step is to find out where.
I would rig up a way to connect compressed air to a spark plug adaptor.
Hold the engine at the top of the compression stroke and apply 30 psi or so on the line.
I assume it will not hold the compressed air and want to leak out.
With a piece of hose to the ear,you can quickly determine if its coming out the exhaust,intake or the crankcase.
This will tell you where it's leaking and what might be wrong.
Perhaps a sticking valve or carbon buildup under a valve..???
Do all this with no spark.Get the compression problem fixed then worry about the spark and carbs.

I did check first to see if the piston was moving cuz if the rod was broken I didn't want the air pressure to pop the piston into the crankcase or wedge the crank. But it moves normally.

Used the air pressure, and it can hear it clearly up into the air box. I did take some pictures, but couldn't see the air moving. Must have been bad lighting or something :lol: I guess my next step is to remove the head?

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virgilmobile
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Re: timing belt

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 08, 2014 9:11 am

Not quite yet....I hope the intake valve was closed by checking the rocker arm clearance when you tested it..
Next..remove,unbolt,or at least turn the intake pipe from the carb away from the head...You will have to loosen both front and rear intake pipes...This is to expose the intake valve area..
Push the piston to the bottom of the compression stroke for that cylinder and verify that both valves are closed and there is tappet clearance.
I was able to shine a small flashlight into the spark plug hole and see light around a just part of the intake valve..It was bent.(head removal time)
I also saw one with light all the way around it...The valve was stuck(also head removal time) and finally I saw one with a chunk of carbon wedged into the seat....Gentle cleaning,small wire brush,harsh chemicals..I got it out....Blew the cylinder clean and done...

Inspect the cause of the non-sealing valve before you just yank the head off...

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krazni
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1976 GL1000, dressed with Vetter

Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Thu May 08, 2014 4:59 pm

You a smart man! :D I would have yanked it off. Yes, both the intake and exhaust were closed. Hopefully can get to it tomorrow, so I'll let you know how it goes.

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krazni
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1976 GL1000, dressed with Vetter

Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Fri May 09, 2014 4:02 pm

Pulled the intake pipe on the bad cylinder (#3), as well as the one on #1. Could NOT see any light coming through the valve area, but possibly because it is so full of junk! It has dirty oil residue kinda like a car engine looks after it has had an oil leak the back of the valve cover gasket for awhile (car engine because our bikes NEVER look that way, right?? :lol: ) I pulled #1 to compare with #3 -- and it's clean like it should be.

FYI, both spark plugs are sandy brown and clean ... I'm a bit confused right now :|

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krazni
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Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Thu May 22, 2014 4:38 pm

Finally back to it. But no pictures - sorry. I removed the 1-3 head and cleaned everything. The offending intake was seriously filthy, but after cleaning it seats fine. I'm thinking the valve stem seals may be the culprit for all the mess in the intake port?? There is no noticeable difference in the build-up on the two cylinders, either on the valves or the piston heads.

Anyway, I think the next step is to reassemble, unless you have some other thoughts. And as long as I'm doing it I thought I'd replace the seals on the other side too.

Any suggestions for where to purchase head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, valve stem seals, etc?

Oh, one other question. As long as I'm this far in, I'm thinking of resealing the front end around the water pump area. Good idea, or just a lot more work? The pump seems to be fine ...

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Re: timing belt

Postby WingAdmin » Fri May 23, 2014 9:39 am

krazni wrote:Oh, one other question. As long as I'm this far in, I'm thinking of resealing the front end around the water pump area. Good idea, or just a lot more work? The pump seems to be fine ...


What do you mean by resealing? It's sealed using gaskets - don't go trying to put RTV there in place of gaskets.

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krazni
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Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:53 pm

Finally back on this project. To refresh my memory, found no compression on #3 cylinder, and using compressed air (thanks Virgilmobile) found the intake valve not closing. I decided to pull both heads and do them both. I purchased top end gasket set A from the Honda dealer and am ready to go.

I am going to lap the valves, but some of the valve guides are sloppy. Can I replace them at home, or does a shop need to press them in and out? I'm sure those of you who have done this before are thinking "there go another pair of heads to the scrap yard." :shock: Well, hopefully not ... But with that in mind, are there any warnings or observations any of you would like to pass on? :|

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krazni
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Re: timing belt

Postby krazni » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:34 pm

I was wrong. I had the valves too far out when I found the play in the guides. With them in operating position, there is no play... :D




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