Help! What have I done wrong??


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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alastair.kj
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Motorcycle: 1981 GL1100 Interstate

Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:08 am



So I am in the process of converting my 1981 gl1100 Interstate into a Standard. I also decided to drain and replace coolant and oil as well as replace my timing belts, spark plugs, rad hoses and rad cap while I'm at it.

I finally finished all these steps and put everything back together and now the bike will not properly start. It tries to, the engine starts to turn, but I have to hold the throttle all the way open and I get a bit of a spitting sound coming from the right side and then it just dies out once I let the throttle go.
I have made sure that there is enough gas and a fully charged battery and I rechecked the gaps on all the spark plugs (they came out of the box appropriately gapped). I just don't know what else to look at. Does this mean I messed up the timing belts? How do I check this? I have made sure that the engine will turn by hand. I'm at a loss and need your help!

I can't wait to get this bike running again. I still need to figure out how to wire my new head light/turn signals, but that's another topic.

Any help would be so greatly appreciated!

Cheers



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WingAdmin
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:22 am

First thing to do is check compression. Best way to do this is with a compression tester that you screw into the spark plug holes, then crank the engine over. If you're looking for bent valves from an incorrect timing belt installation, this will usually cause there to be NO compression, so if you have no compression tester, you can do this by putting your finger gently over the plug hole. You then crank the engine - if it blows your finger off the hole, then you have compression.

If all four cylinders have good compression, next I'd check for spark. Remove a plug, put its wire back on the plug, then ground the case of the plug against the engine block. Crank the engine to make sure you see a spark. Repeat for each plug.

Are you sure you got the correct wires hooked up to the correct cylinders?

Four Cylinder Plug Wiring
Four Cylinder Plug Wiring

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alastair.kj
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:03 pm

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply!

When you say "crank the engine", do you mean by hand, like when changing the belts?

I put the wires back the way I found them, so they should still be correct.

I will check for compression when I get home from work tonight. Any other advice is gladly welcomed!

Thanks again.

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SteveB123
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby SteveB123 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:05 pm

Sounds to me like you're off a tooth.
The only people THAT doesn't happen to are liars. :lol:
Current:82 GL1100 Interstate, 60 Amp Poorboy, MSD coil
Previous: 93 GSX1100F Katana
82 GL500 Silverwing

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eklimek
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Motorcycle: 81 GL1100 (Widowmaker not in service), 83GL1100, CB350f x 6, CB400f x2, CB550f sold, CL350 (seized engine), plus enough donors to take me through retirement.

Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby eklimek » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:11 pm

If you are off one tooth, it still runs, not well. Probably the right belt is off by one.

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alastair.kj
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:44 pm

If a belt is "off a tooth" what is the easiest way to go about remedying this? I found that when I put the belts on in the first place, it was near impossible to get the teeth lined up any way other than how I have them.

Anyone here ever change/adjust timing belts without removing the radiator? I'm going to try this myself, cause I am sick of removing/reinstalling it. Also, I already refilled the coolant and don't want to waste it all now. Just wondering if any of you have experience with that.

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eklimek
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby eklimek » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:09 pm

Don't know how to do it without removing the rad. Would welcome that tip.

Test run it before replacing the rad or front covers. For the short time required to verify belt placement, it won't overheat.

Likely the centre and left belt will line up correctly, but the right side (of the bike cyl 1 and 3) will be off. It tends to shift. Easy way I found was to use little beavers trick of removing the right valve cover then immobilize the cam with a clamp and socket. That of course must be replaced before test run or it gets messy. Its also a good reason to check tappet gap.

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alastair.kj
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:38 pm

Definitely can't do it without removing rad.. dang. Will have to drain and remove tomorrow. If the coolant is brand new, can I keep it and reuse it?

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:23 am

You can reuse coolant.
You can also try backing off the valves, which will release the springs pressure off of the cam, making it easier to change the belts.
Also a good excuse to adjust valves. Randacks sells a wrench that allows you to remove the belt cover without taking off the radiator, its expensive, but even so it is just to tight of a place to work in. Regards, Johnyy

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eklimek
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby eklimek » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:16 am

Radaaks tool

http://randakks.com/collections/tools/p ... cover-tool

Looks pretty easy to reproduce. A 10 mm wrench with extension .... .

http://www.swaintools.com/store/pc/cata ... Wrench.jpg

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alastair.kj
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:04 am

I'll just remove the rad. That tool is neat, but you'd still have to drain the coolant since you can't move the rad at all without disconnecting at least one hose. It's no big deal, I've just already removed it twice, but the third time's a charm, I suppose.
Will be having a go at it this evening.
Cheers

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alastair.kj
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:04 am

I've readjusted the belts and they seem to be right on as far as I can tell.
After trying to start the bike, it now starts more easily, sounds better than before, but won't stay running without me holding the throttle open at least half way.
I'm thinking the next thing to check is whether or not the spark plugs are sparking.. right? I have installed brand new plugs, but have removed and reinstalled them twice.. maybe they're ruined?
I'm desperate to get this thing running and I stilled have electrical work to figure out.
Yikes!
Thanks again

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:32 am

Spark plugs should be fine, Make sure they are gapped correctly and be careful you don't bump the bottoms when you install them. Check for good spark on all four.
Have you inspected the fuel filter?
Is the choke set right?
Did you do the compression check? Regards, Johnyy

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alastair.kj
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:18 am

I haven't checked the compression yet. I will try this tonight.

So let me get this straight:

Compression test: With the battery installed/connected and all 4 spark plugs removed I try starting the engine using the ignition button, correct?

Spark test: Again with the battery in and all 4 plugs out I connect one plug to it's appropriate wire, touch the base of it to some metal on the engine and then once again try to start the engine using the ignition button and look for sparks? Any risk of me getting burned or anything?

I'm hoping I can do all of this with the radiator removed. Is this right? I don't want to reinstall it until I know I won't have to remove it again!

One day at a time.. I will get this running.

Thanks

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WingAdmin
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1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
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2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:00 am

alastair.kj wrote:I haven't checked the compression yet. I will try this tonight.

So let me get this straight:

Compression test: With the battery installed/connected and all 4 spark plugs removed I try starting the engine using the ignition button, correct?

Spark test: Again with the battery in and all 4 plugs out I connect one plug to it's appropriate wire, touch the base of it to some metal on the engine and then once again try to start the engine using the ignition button and look for sparks? Any risk of me getting burned or anything?

I'm hoping I can do all of this with the radiator removed. Is this right? I don't want to reinstall it until I know I won't have to remove it again!

One day at a time.. I will get this running.

Thanks


When you do the compression test, make sure you hold the throttle wide open while cranking the engine.

For the spark test, you're correct. Make sure you hold the metal spark plug body against the engine while you crank it with the starter. You should see a bright spark between the electrodes. You shouldn't feel anything while doing this, but you can always wear a pair of gloves if you're worried. :)

Neither of these tests involve the engine running, so you're fine doing them with the radiator removed.

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alastair.kj
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby alastair.kj » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:14 am

Alright folks, I finally got it!!
Thanks for all the help getting me there. After all your helpful suggestions, it turns out the problem was from something boneheaded that I had done: removed the intake plug screws that were holding a chrome cover that I disliked and ignorantly did not replace them, thinking that all they did was hold some silly chrome.. turns out they also hold in all the air that my engine so desperately needs. Lesson learned..

I did however learn how to change my belts in the process after doing it twice (the first time definitely was off a tooth and now they are right on!) and gained some useful knowledge from you all.

Now I just need to replace the rubber o-ring that goes between the lower rad hose manifold and the water pump. Would these be in stock at most auto parts stores??

Next is figuring out some electrical work.. will likely make a new post for that!

Cheers,
Alastair

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eklimek
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:55 pm
Location: St Catharines Ontario Canada
Motorcycle: 81 GL1100 (Widowmaker not in service), 83GL1100, CB350f x 6, CB400f x2, CB550f sold, CL350 (seized engine), plus enough donors to take me through retirement.

Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby eklimek » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:43 am

O rings need not be precise fit serving their pupose under compression.

I am told those with solvent exposure should be of different material than those exposed to water.

Buy a box of assorted rings on sale.


http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Kits ... /3801073.p

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SteveB123
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Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby SteveB123 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:12 pm

alastair.kj wrote:Now I just need to replace the rubber o-ring that goes between the lower rad hose manifold and the water pump. Would these be in stock at most auto parts stores??


Maybe....46X2.
Current:82 GL1100 Interstate, 60 Amp Poorboy, MSD coil
Previous: 93 GSX1100F Katana
82 GL500 Silverwing

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tumunga
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Motorcycle: 1989 GL1500 - this is the one I will always need help with.

1980 GL1100I Interstate (gone)

Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby tumunga » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:02 am

SteveB123 wrote:Sounds to me like you're off a tooth.
The only people THAT doesn't happen to are liars. :lol:


Never happened to me...tee hee hee!

Ok, happened once, but I fixed it BEFORE I put everything back together!
Tumunga
1989 GL1500 Goldwing with all the optional goodies (I think)

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tumunga
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:34 am
Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1989 GL1500 - this is the one I will always need help with.

1980 GL1100I Interstate (gone)

Re: Help! What have I done wrong??

Postby tumunga » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:04 am

eklimek wrote:Radaaks tool

http://randakks.com/collections/tools/p ... cover-tool

Looks pretty easy to reproduce. A 10 mm wrench with extension .... .

http://www.swaintools.com/store/pc/cata ... Wrench.jpg


I pulled both covers off without moving the radiator with a 10mm boxed wrench. One of those newer ratcheting boxed wrenches would be perfect for the job.


Tumunga
1989 GL1500 Goldwing with all the optional goodies (I think)


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