ground plastic in the oil


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
  • Sponsored Links
tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:07 am



Hello everyone, it's been awhile since I was asking for some help.
Now l need a help, and problem is that l have found small plastic pcs in the oil and on right side filter screan.In oil check window l so larger pc of plastic as well , about 6mm in diameter.
I assume that total engine disassembly is must and l am not happy about that.
What parts are made of plastic inside the engine?
Any suggestions or advices are more than welcome, thank you guys in a advance.
Regards Zoran



User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:51 am

Talk about trying to remember every internal part of a gl1100 engine...whew.
The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head is the "shoe" that rides on the primary chain.
I'll look at a breakdown to refresh my memory.
Are these pieces white or black.?

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:57 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Talk about trying to remember every internal part of a gl1100 engine...whew.
The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head is the "shoe" that rides on the primary chain.
I'll look at a breakdown to refresh my memory.
Are these pieces white or black.?


That's what I was thinking as well. It's the only plastic that comes to mind in the interior of the engine.

User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:45 pm

There's a couple of other things,but not really in the that side of the engine side of the engine...
The neutral selector switch has plastic in it...
The stator has some plastic insulating material..it would be flat,not rounded...same as the neutral switch...
The reason I asked about the color...There exists rubber dampeners in the stator area.

Part #7 is what were considering...23137-463-013 TENSIONER

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:53 pm

Helo, color is black and small pcs were hard and sharp.Disassembly is going a head and l will let you know once l get inside the engine.Good thing is that l have striped engine off other parts.
Regards Zoran

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:28 am

Hallo, here are some photos of my progress before I discovered plastic pcs in the oil:
Attachments
Striped down, it's been like that for some time.
Striped down, it's been like that for some time.
Front brake master cylinder.l don't think that brake fluid had been ever flashed out
Front brake master cylinder.l don't think that brake fluid had been ever flashed out
Rear break master cylinder, another disaster
Rear break master cylinder, another disaster
Brake calipers finished and ready for installation, some how l dont have photos of master cylinders but they are like new.
Brake calipers finished and ready for installation, some how l dont have photos of master cylinders but they are like new.
Engine out of the frame, and still have no idea what l am going to find in the oil.
Engine out of the frame, and still have no idea what l am going to find in the oil.
Left cylinder head ready for a assembly, right cylinder head ready for refinishing.
Left cylinder head ready for a assembly, right cylinder head ready for refinishing.

User avatar
moffat
Posts: 264
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Northwich United Kingdom
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100
Interstate

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby moffat » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:51 am

Black plastic bits???? Strange one that, I have seen bits of the black clutch friction linings inn the gauze filter before now and its not uncommon. I have also changed the clutch plates with the engine in situ, bit fiddly but can be done. Let us know what you find

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:11 pm

Hi, friction plates ara still in a "one pc",but l am going to replace them with a new ones.Very soon l will have engine a part completely and full report with photos will be posted, so do not change the chanel :D
regards Zoran

Old Fogey
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby Old Fogey » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:36 pm

There is only one place a number of 'hard and sharp' bits can come from and that is the disintegrating alternator shock absorber rubbers.
Here's how to fix:
http://www.wingovations.com/alternator- ... 4579471110
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:57 am

Hi, thanks for the info,l have got bolts loose end l should be able to take halfs a part in a day or two. I know that I can get the shaft out without taking engine a part completely but l want to make sure that other stuff is still in good condition.
l have had sodablasting treatment of the halfs in order to remove left over paint and other oxidation, it turned out to be good.
Attachments
After sodablasting
After sodablasting
Small area of the halfs before sodablasting.
Small area of the halfs before sodablasting.

bigbugshurt
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:28 am
Location: Lawrenceville Va
Motorcycle: 1980 gl 1100 standard "patch" ;-)

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby bigbugshurt » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:34 pm

I hope I caught you before you split it....the primary slides are kinda plastic, but tough as nails! I think your problem is going to be the black epoxy that is surrounding the magnets in the hub of your stator (the part that spins).

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:13 pm

Hi , it is to late for me to stop now, everything is apart.Never the less it is good that l have striped engine. I have got to replace all bearings except on the crank shaft.
Ground plastic turn out to be hardened sealant that seels halfs(see photos).
Dampers , both kinds, are still in a good shape but l was lucky to find new ones which I am going to install.
Attachments
Hardened sealant was all over the edges, in some places almost 5 mm, kind that l found in oil and on the filters screen.
Hardened sealant was all over the edges, in some places almost 5 mm, kind that l found in oil and on the filters screen.
This one's gone to, l was lucky to get one
This one's gone to, l was lucky to get one
Paint is still wet.
Paint is still wet.

User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:26 pm

There's not suppose to be any sealant between the halves.At least not like that.
Someone has split the case before.Thats not OEM stuff in there.
Be prepared to find anything.

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:53 pm

Hi, you are right, there is a evidence of halfs being taken a part.l have checked all that is to be checked out and assembly will follow soon.
Regards Zoran

User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:18 am

I don't recall that honda used any sealant on the halves.i don't believe I did either when I rebuilt my 83.
The halves are precision machined surfaces.No gasket or compound is needed there.

To the best of my remembering.
Whatever you do....Do not EVER use RTV silicone on any part of the engine where it can get inside...EVER.

Yes it happend to a new wing.less than 100 miles...minor valve adjustment by a Dealer...
Silicone used on the cover...extra came loose and plugged the oil pickup...
Engine destroyed in 50 miles...
After replacing the whole bike,the Dealer allowed the "Mechanic" to work on only bicycles.
Yes I know this person.Its not a myth.

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:36 am

Hi, l have checked Hondas manual for gl1100 82Aspencade and it says to use sealant .l definitely will be using a sealant but only very small amount of it.
Bearings should arrive today and joyful reassembly will be under way.
Regards Zoran

User avatar
HawkeyeGL1200
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:53 am
Location: Courtland, Va.
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Interstate
1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:03 pm

At work, we have used "Indian Head" which I believe is a shellac, to seal machined surfaces where a THIN... coating of sealant is needed to ensure the parts seal oil inside. Another product that is similar to Indian Head, is something called "Aviation" Permatex. It comes in a short plastic bottle (that's if they still sell it) and there's either a brush or a blotter attached to a wire in the bottle... a Very thin (what I'd call a wipe-on coat) layer is applied to each half of the machine to be assembled, then it is allowed to get tacky before the two halves are pressed or bolted together... Any extra will definitely be extruded into the engine or out to the atmosphere side of the cases. So, the thinner coat the better, really.

I agree that RTV should NOT be used in an engine. I'd rather use lacquer based paint than RTV... and I'd never use paint.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:06 am

Hi, l will try to get what you have suggested. Today I got bearings and realize that l have to order two more.Here is a photo of the new bearings and some washers,.(In a background is a right side fork which l had to take apart )
My suggestion is to replace all bearings once you have engine a part as it is easier to listen and enjoy mellow engine sounds than to say "l did rebuilt the engine and still sounds rough". Reason for this suggestion is that I have checked bearings and thay seemed to be ok until l have cleaned out oil.
Oil have covered small imperfections which would show up once engine starts to run.For finger speed rotation of bearing it is hard to notice problem unless it is so obvious that bearing is gone.l will keep you posted on the progress.
Regards Zoran
Attachments

User avatar
HawkeyeGL1200
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:53 am
Location: Courtland, Va.
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Interstate
1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:29 am

I would find out what Honda recommends before I'd pay attention to a guy like me as far as an engine case sealing medium. Shellac may not hold up to gasoline well enough.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:23 am

I definitely have to check out Hondas recommendation on the meter.l do not want to do job twice but l am thankfull for suggestions and ideas.
Sharing our experience with each other make sure that we all learn .
Regards Zoran

User avatar
SteveB123
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Winchester, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1982 1100I, 60A Poorboy, MSD coil

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby SteveB123 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:59 pm

Pretty sure there's a case gasket. Paper thin, of course for dimensional stability.

To be oil tight without a gasket, the case halves would have to be lapped together.

cheers
Current:82 GL1100 Interstate, 60 Amp Poorboy, MSD coil
Previous: 93 GSX1100F Katana
82 GL500 Silverwing

Old Fogey
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby Old Fogey » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:14 pm

There is no gasket between the cases. Honda recommend '3 Bond' sealer, but a SMALL quantity of almost any quality sealer such as Hylomar will be as good.
I've been experimenting with an aerobic sealer; one that stays soft on the outside so that it can be wiped away, hardens when compressed between the mating surfaces and best of all, is oil soluble so that any excess is simply dissolved and absorbed into the oil.
Results so far are very impressive.
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:57 pm

I will try to get what you have suggested if available in Canada.
Regards Zoran
Attachments

tomos
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:00 pm
Location: GuelphOntario, Canada
Motorcycle: Gl1100 a 82
suzuki gs400e 82

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby tomos » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:08 pm

I forgot to mention that I have finished instalaton of new dampers in a alternator shaft. Old dumpers seemed to be ok until l took them out.There are cracks and they have lost their flexibility, l was very lucky to find new ones in a dealership stock (discontinued by Honda).
Regards Zoran

User avatar
HawkeyeGL1200
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:53 am
Location: Courtland, Va.
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Interstate
1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: ground plastic in the oil

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:47 am

At my work, we have been using a Loktite (don't know if I spelled it right) product # 5772 on threaded pipe. It is an anaerobic sealant (It cures in the absence of oxygen and in this case, the presence of metal so it doesn't "go bad" in the container). We use a degreaser, apply a very small amount of the sealant (once around the pipe at about the 3rd thread up from the bottom on the "male" half of the joint) and thread together hand tight plus a half turn or so, and in 10 minutes you have a seal that a gorilla can't budge.

The 5772 would not be a good choice for a machined joint like the motorcycle cases, but it is great on pipe and I'm sure the principle is definitely applicable to the case in hand.

Many years ago, while working for a large equipment manufacturer who used a LOT of split cased gear boxes on their equipment, we used a two part epoxy to seal case halves. One part of the mixture looked like really thick blue paint. The other part (hardener, I suppose) looked like apple-sauce. When mixed together they produced a smell unlike anything I have smelled before or since... kind of a beer and peanuts vomit odor that was pretty much unforgettable even after nearly 40 years has past since last smelling.

As written previously, I would *probably* go with what Honda recommends unless I *knew* of a better product for the application. It is good that persons like yourself, here, have so much knowledge in these motorcycles. I imagine a person like me would have a great deal of learning opportunity given the chance to work along-side of a person like you. Thanks

Old Fogey wrote:There is no gasket between the cases. Honda recommend '3 Bond' sealer, but a SMALL quantity of almost any quality sealer such as Hylomar will be as good.
I've been experimenting with an aerobic sealer; one that stays soft on the outside so that it can be wiped away, hardens when compressed between the mating surfaces and best of all, is oil soluble so that any excess is simply dissolved and absorbed into the oil.
Results so far are very impressive.


I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.


Return to “GL1100 Information & Questions”




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media [Bot] and 3 guests