GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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auctioneeral
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GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:12 pm



Hello
I posted before about GL1100 starter hangs up in tech talk. I just got this bike. Well here is what I got 1981 GL1100. Which I just brought it and I think should have my a-- kicked.
Here's the deal. today change oil and filter. The day I got it Adjusted valves to .004 intake, .005 exhaust. timing marks are on.
But I got one hell of tapping noise coming mostly from right side of engine. Also right side as a popping noise when running. It seems like the engine as a hard time turning over . What I mean is running idle and give it throttle it seems like the motor bogs down so before picking up throttle.
But its the tapping noise that as me if the valves are adjust correctly. and the popping. could it be inside motor like a wrist pin.
I don't know how to put pictures or videos on so here is link to my utube.
First time starting today.





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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:14 pm

White smoke clear up but got a popping noise out right side along with tapping noise.

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Phavas
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby Phavas » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:08 am

Okay, one of the problems is you rev the engine and the exhaust note drowns out much of the "knocking"
I am one of those guys who hates the GL1100 ignition system because it's so hard to get to and it's tough to adjust if it's been frigged with or the vacuum advance unit is toast.

If you are sure your valves are adjusted correctly what you have is "spark Knock" : your timing is too advanced and you're hearing detonation. Rough running or bogging would accompany this because your firing to early. You also have a healthy misfire which could be related to crappy plugs or crossed ignition wires. In fact it does sound like it's not running on all cylinders.

I cured it by **** the distributor system and installing GL1000 cams with standard points ignition on the left cylinder. Everything bolts right on.

If you're not willing to be that radical, try a timing light on the left pulley to at least check it.
Mark the timing tit on the pulley and the corresponding place on the crankcase, fire it up at idle and see where you are with a strobe. Have someone gently accelerate and see where the timing light moves and measure it with a protractor or timing wheel.
You can buy make a timing wheel with a piece of cardboard that can be attached under the pulley bolt, or you can buy one; they're cheap. If you make one, just mark off the important degrees: 5 (for reference) and 38.5 (for max advance) you will know if you're on the money or not.
If it starts before 5 degrees and advances to more than 38.5 it's a timing issue and you've got to take off the rear forks to get at the advance unit (PIA).
Don't try to strobe it at the flywheel through the little inspection port; it's practically impossible and the little sight glass which doesn't work well costs $50.

When you say the cams are aligned properly: did you get your nose down in line with the pulley and make certain the marks (you're not allowed to say ****) are aligned on BOTH pulleys AFTER you've put the tensioners back on? They will want to move and conventional wisdom is to immobilize the pulleys with vise-grips while you frig with the tensioners.

Anyway, doesn't sound fatal. But pull off the valve covers and check the valves first. It's easy to get them 180 degrees out.

Cheers,
Zaphod
Last edited by Phavas on Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Writing roughshod over the English language

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virgilmobile
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:57 am

I know that a posted video audio quality generally doesn't really compare to "being there"....Judging by what I've just heard and what I know what a video sounds like....
I can imagine what it sounds like if one cylinder is not firing...It would clatter badly...
Here's mine and it it firing on all 4....still sounds like a knocking engine in the video..




By one comment you made in your other post.." He said he did compression test on all 4 cylinders and we're all around 145-150."...assuming this is correct(I would check that)..
This would be my next thing to do...
Start the bike from dead cold....keep the rpm low.(below 12000) for about 8 seconds then shut it down...
Lightly tap each header pipe...they should be equally warm...A cold pipe would indicate a dead cylinder....Locate that cylinder(s) and find out why it's not firing...
Yes I've heard a wing running at 900 rpm on just one cylinder too...sounded horrible...
Don't get excited about the noise till the engine is firing on all 4...
Verify three things...Spark..Compression and fuel...

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virgilmobile
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:27 am

By the way...here's one fellow that the time first just got his running...sounded worse than yours...
It was firing on one cylinder..
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10333

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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:08 pm

OK guys help me out. Timing check right on. 4 plugs firing. re did valve cleanence.
Fire it up motor runs better but.
There is a grinding noise. It sounds like it's coming from back part of motor.
Any idea's.
Or should I rip it out and tear down.
I tried to put it in first gear and it was a big bang clunk when it when in gear.



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virgilmobile
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:35 pm

In front of the battery area,on the back of the engine,there is a large plug.Remove it.Inside is a bolt.Be sure its tight.If loose,the whole assembly rattles about.
The big clunk may just have been the clutch plates stuck.once in a while,I'd stuff mine in first and it killed the engine.
Is it firing on all 4 yet?

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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:42 pm

that large plug is were the bolt is to turn motor over correct. if so yes its tight.
all 4 headers were warm when I started it for about 5-7 seconds. I had motor running about 10 minutes tonight.
front cover off a gl1100 does all that stuff in there turn when motor is running. I just though maybe something in there

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Phavas
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby Phavas » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:06 am

Check the bolt as per Virgilmobil. If you've got a grinding when you accelerate the timing's still not right.
How many miles on the motor? There is a sandwich plate in the clutch that looses it's rivets at high mileage and gets noisy and slippy. Easy fix, just replace with two smooth plates. I agree it sounds like your engine's gummy inside. Get it good and warm and let it try to work its problems out before you panic. Everything in the back of the engine is overbuilt - including the clutch. It's never going to be a smooth as a GL1000, which is already a noisy engine.

Synthetic oil rules.

Cheers,
Zaphod
Writing roughshod over the English language

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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:11 am

79,000 miles. and its been sitting.

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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:42 am

This may have been covered, and I missed it... what kind of shape are the carbs in? The goldwing flat four makes all kinds of racket when the carburetion is messed up. Gummed up carbs make a Goldwing engine sound worse than anything I've ever messed with.

I'm not saying that is what is wrong, but if your valves are adjusted correctly, your timing is set correctly and you have 145-150 PSI compression in each cylinder, it makes me thing you aren't getting fuel in the correct amount in the right places... even though your headers are all getting warm after a short run.

These other guys know a lot more than me, so you may want to set my comments aside as a last resort.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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littlebeaver
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:00 pm

that sounds like mine did when I got it... It was in a bad way....Goodness have mercy upon my soul and now yours .. I feel for you.... Your vacuum advance is more than likely rusted up and not working properly, carbs are probably blocked up, jets are clogged, get ready for lots of time and energy to get this bike right,,, almost sounds like your exhaust crush gaskets are shot, might be missing a rubber gasket to your intakes,,, check for cracks in your coil... Oh mercy,, could be lots of stuff.., what I did was just do one thing at a time and finally I got a pretty good running bike... Hey, if you have a timing light you can see if your vaccum advance is working or not,,, just shoot the light on the marks on the front cam pulley as the bike is running,,, you might want to paint the mark (Arrow) on the pulley itself near the belt....When you do this hit the throttle and watch it advance....Ok guy... :lol: ha ha ha works good..... If you see it doesn't rise, vaccum advance is shot.. :shock: Oh and if you just got this bike be sure you check the 3 Yellow wires plug that comes from the stator...That stupid freaking SOB plug gives guys hell..Check the post for that..refer to the search engine at the top of the page... Every one of you had a friend when you were little that called you guy... :lol: Ok guy...lol

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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:37 am

ok guys going to do something today. its warm out.
#1 question. number #1 cylinder is front right side correct. back right side #3 this is sitting on bike.
firing order 1-3-2-4. why do I read post and pictures showing and telling to about hooking up timing light to left side and watching cam pulleys. if number 1 cylinder is on right, wouldn't you be checking right cam marking .
Also I have read timing marks on cam gear is with the UP at 12 oclock. my are not at 12 oclock like 11 oclock.
also I have a couple of marks on cam gear.

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Phavas
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby Phavas » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:43 am

Before you do ANYTHING ELSE line up the cams properly.
There are a couple of marks on the cams but ONLY ONE will line up with both words "UP" at 12 o'clock. 11 o'clock is way out, 1 o'clock as well. Have a buddy hold the sprockets with a vice-grip or a large channel lock. The belt must go through the pliers (obviously)
You might find you've cleared up much of your problem by retiming the belts.
Belt tension is determined by the spring holding the tensioner down. They should not be dead tight.

Ignition is lost spark: doesn't matter which cylinder you time it off: one coil is 1-3 other is 2-4.

Cheers,
Zaphod
Writing roughshod over the English language

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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:50 am

Ok I'm trying to post pictures of gears
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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:58 am

Ok here is the left gear sitting on bike
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Phavas
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby Phavas » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:10 am

Right one looks good, left one looks out - mark is below the index. Slack off the tensioner on the left side and move the sprocket about a tooth toward the center (counter clock-wise) re-tighten the tensioner.
Cheers,
Z
Writing roughshod over the English language

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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:12 am

ok im going to try it out

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Phavas
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby Phavas » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:34 am

Gotta get your face right down next to the sprocket to see it correctly. Not hard but when you've got it right, it will want to skip a tooth to relieve valve spring tension.

Good luck, lemme know how it goes.
Z
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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:32 am

Ok timing marks were on.
Here pic of right side plugs which were new and motor as about 15 minutes running on plugs
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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:36 am

Left side plugs dark black.
Also plugging plug and resting to motor it as weak spark. Not like I'm use to seeing on garden tractor motors
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:38 am

I'm still leaning toward carb troubles. If timing and compression are good, one side of plugs is loaded up and the others are lean looking, I'd at least TRY to synchronize the carbs if not pull them to clean and reset everything.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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auctioneeral
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby auctioneeral » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:37 am

Yes ripping carbs off now

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Phavas
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby Phavas » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:45 am

Looks like the right side wasn't firing at all. One of the left plugs is rich (dry carbon black) and the other looked normal.
Cheers,
Z
Writing roughshod over the English language

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littlebeaver
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Re: GL1100 KNOCKING OR VALVE TAPPING

Postby littlebeaver » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:38 pm

You can shoot a light on either cam while it's running, both rise up upon acceleration (advance) but you may want to paint a mark so you can see it easier, it's just to check to see if your vaccum advance is working or not working....... If you want..... Shoot it where the mark is on the case and you can see the mark on the cam itself....Doesn't matter which side providing you are hitting on all four cylinders....I made a stand I set up on the floor right up next to the cam with marks on it,,here's a video,, bottom line is the case mark next line up close to it is idle advance mark top mark is total advance...

You won't find this anywhere but here... :lol: we are full of tricks around here..lol I like playing...lol Oh and I have a timing sight cap to comfirm the timing via crackshaft from the top of the engine...




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