New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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JIMINBUFFALO
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Motorcycle: 1980 Gl1100
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New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby JIMINBUFFALO » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:03 pm



I just got my 1980 GL 1100 from a local sale.
I am in the process of diagnosing a problem with getting the bike to start.
This is what I have done so far:
<> New Battery
<> New solenoid
<> pulled starter and bench tested (looks like the starter is newer than the bike, possibly replaced a few years ago)
I put everything together and with the key "on" and pushing the starter button; the headlight dims but no starter power. I check with my multi-meter to see if there is juice to the cable.

Questions:
1) What should I check/replace next? I suspect the starter switch
2) Is it safe to jump the solenoid terminals in order to get power to the starter directly -or-
3) If I set up a jumper off the block on the solenoid, which terminals would I go from/to in order to get power to the solenoid and therefore to the starter. I am looking at this option as a way of determining that the starter switch (on the handlebars) is the culprit.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give. It is not an emergency since winter has set in here in Buffalo but I would like to get this problem solved first so I know where to go with this machine. -Jim



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FlashBack
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby FlashBack » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:03 pm

You indicated you put a multi meter to see if there is juice to the cable. You didn't state yes there was or no there wasn't.
And did the starter spin okay when you bench tested it? You didn't indicate the results of that.
If the answer is yes to both of these questions then i would replace the dog bone fuse on the solenoid block and try again.
Hope this helps you

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RBGERSON
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby RBGERSON » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:50 am

you can jump the starter directly from another battery/car positive to post neg to frame...tests the starter on the bike..note only for a few seconds and best with plugs out..you could have hydrolock..gas in the cylinders which can bend a rod.

You can jump the two big posts on the solenoid..key to on and big screw driver or old battery cable works well.

Battery needs to be at at least 12.5 before you start and not less than 10 when you push the start button..IE under load.

If there is not even a click at the solenoid when you push the starter button I'd suspect the starter button or the circuit going to the solenoid
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

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virgilmobile
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:16 am

Yes to all of the above...The headlights should go off when you push the start button...At that same time,the start button sends power to the start solenoid....so one of the small wires should go "hot" with the start button pushed....The circuit is completed by the "neutral safety"circuit....It is the ground for the start solenoid...there is also a diode and a switch circuit attached in there to allow the bike to crank in gear if you pull in the clutch lever....

Soooo....is the neutral lamp on....does the start solenoid click..

I got caught tearing a starter off my 1100 because it wouldn't crank...battery was fine and the solenoid clicked too....silly engine was hydrolocked...

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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby JIMINBUFFALO » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:42 am

Guys, Thanks for the prompt responses.
Flashback: 1) about the multi-meter, Yes, good power from the battery to the post on the solenoid. 2) The starter does spin very well on the bench test. Good torque. 3) Dog bone on the solenoid is good, I tested continuity across with the Multi-meter.

RBGerson: The battery is showing over 13.0 so there should be enough to kick it.

Virgilmobile: you may have hit something that I did not consider. I know that I have it in neutral however, the green light is not on. I don't know if it is just the bulb or maybe bad connection. Does the bike have an interlock that prevents starting without the light being on (in neutral)?

As soon as I get back to the garage I will try pulling the plugs and jumping the starter directly with the jumper cables. Thanks again for the direction. I will let you know later what I find.

-Jim

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virgilmobile
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:07 pm

The solenoid is grounded by the neutral switch and at the same time it provides the ground for the neutral lamp.the bypass is a diode and a switch attached to the clutch lever.
Even if the lamp should be bad,the neutral switch should complete the ground circuit needed for the solenoid.
Does it click when you push the start button?

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virgilmobile
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:20 pm

Be prepared...if its just hydrolocked and you crank it with the plugs out,kill the ignition...KIlL switch OFF...
Mine shot raw gas 15 feet out of one hole...any spark and you can have one heck of a flame thrower...

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Mh434
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby Mh434 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:26 pm

Assuming it's not hydrolocked (!!!), I'd suspect the starter brushes. My GL1100 did exactly the same thing - when, in a fit of pique I even tried to jump-start it from my running truck, it dimmed the lights on the truck & barely turned over.

Pulled the starter, removed the brushes, found one was almost entirely gone. Picked up a new set at my local Honda dealer (had 'em IN STOCK, can you believe?!?!) for around $4 for the set, installed 'em, and the bike spun over like new.

If one of the brushes is worn down so it has poor contact, it doesn't matter how much battery you have, it won't start. On the bench, the starter will still spin, but it has absolutely zero torque & won't turn over the engine.

Just a thought -

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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby JIMINBUFFALO » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:37 am

Here is the update: Sorry for the delay but I had family here for the holiday and just got back to working on the bike late yesterday.

I jumped the starter on the solenoid using a long screwdriver and got the starter to turn. I had previously got it to turn on the bench test but not installed. I had already pulled the plugs out and put the kill switch on "off". I then tried with the starter button and turned it over a few times.

Virgil: I missed reading your post and wish now that I had. Just like you said, I shot old gas out of the spark plug holes 20 feet across the garage all over some nice white painted drywall.

After cleaning the walls, I replaced the plugs, put in new gas, and tried using the starter button with ether. It kicked right away and started. This bike had been sitting for a couple of years so I was pleasantly surprised that it did start. It ran rough for a while and then was able to get it to idle by itself.

That is when I noticed that it was leaking gas at the carbs and was actually dripping on the now hot exhaust piped. I killed the engine and cleaned up the gas, with a fire extinguisher close by. I should have backed it out of the garage first but I didn't expect it to start that quickly. I was more concerned with getting the starter to turn. Lesson learned, move the bike outside first.

I suspect that the leak is from the floats being stuck in the old gas that was left in the float chambers or possibly the needles themselves. It was leaking equally as much on both sides of the engine.

Any thoughts on proceeding with that issue?

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virgilmobile
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:15 am

Sounds like its time to remove the carbs.Inspect and clean,then decide if it needs a kit .
Jets don't wear out but needle valves can.I have cleaned the seat with a Q tip and polishing compound.look close at the rubber tip and the spring loaded pin on the needle valve.The rubber needs to be "live" ,not rock hard and the pin not stuck.
Always bench test the carbs before putting them back.
Vacuum test each slide for smooth movement.Pre-sync the throttle plates and fill them with gas to check for leaks.
Do set the float level after any service to them.
It's about a half day job.

JIMINBUFFALO
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby JIMINBUFFALO » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:55 pm

Today was the day to get the carbs out of the bike.

Decided not to drain the carbs on the bike and wait until they were on the bench. I drained off as much fuel as I could with the carbs upside-down and the opened all of the float covers. The left-rear carb had water, fuel and a lot of white corrosion in the chamber. The jet was clogged and the pin was very hard to remove on the float. The water and corrosion in the chamber did not leak out when I turned them over initially.

The other carbs were clean and floats look good. I took out all of the jets and checked them. I will follow up with soaking and cleaning them individually.

The only other problem is that the right rear cover has a crack in the casting and I have ordered a new one to replace it. I am also getting a rebuild kit so that I have enough parts to put them back together.

JIMINBUFFALO
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby JIMINBUFFALO » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:16 am

One other issue that I found today. I took the piston covers off the carbs to check the slides. The carb that had the issue with the corrosion has its slide stuck too. I have put some Marvel Mystery Oil on it to sit and try to loosen it up.

Any good tips on getting a slide unstuck?

Thanks, -Jim

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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby JIMINBUFFALO » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:21 pm

I just answered my own question. I got the slide un-stuck. I used the Marvel Mystery Oil on both sides of the carb body. I removed the jet and fed the MMO into the hole to get the oil to the slide where the needle is attached. I also put some around the upper ring of the slide however, with the o-ring seal there, I don't think it got past that area. I let it sit for a couple of hours and then grabbed the upper part of the slide and pulled. I can't say it came right off but with a little coaxing, it pulled out of the body. There was corrosion on the slide so I used fine steel wool and MMO to clean it.

Put it back together and it feels pretty good. Hopefully enough to get the bike running again.

I decided to use the Marvel Mystery Oil since I saw a video that showed how good it is for cleaning corrosion on aluminum. I figured that since both mating parts are aluminum on the carb, if I could get the oil to the parts, it may dissolve the corrosion that was "welding" the two together.

I started using Marvel's years ago with old British cars with similar carbs. The old side-draft carbs actually required oil in the slides which they called "dash-pots". The oil was used to damper the slide travel so that when lifted, the slides slowly returned to position.I always used Marvel's.

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virgilmobile
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:35 pm

Sounds like you got it under control.by the way...use NO oil on or around the slides.
They will just get gunk building up there and seize them.
The slides must move butter smooth too..and bench test them with a shop vac on the carb to watch them move as you operate the throttle

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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby JIMINBUFFALO » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:44 pm

Will do. Thanks for the help.
-jim

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nocturno
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Re: New GL1100 owner: trouble-shooting starting problem

Postby nocturno » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:57 am

i have the same problem i bought a new battery and a new voltage regulator ,the bike ran good for a few days but today there was no juice on the battery and after futile intents to jump start the bike i gave up even try to push it down hill and started that way but nothing happened




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