scraping noise, clutch or transmission?


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roadwanderer2
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scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:49 am



ok, new question, or situation, which ever you wanna call it.

I just noticed this yesterday while I was out riding.....as im pulling up thru the gears, once I get into 4th and 5th and at cruising speed, or going very slow in 4th or OD, I get what sounds like a scraping noise coming from either the clutch or transmission. if I pull the clutch in while im crusing, the noise stops, but as soon as I let the clutch out, it starts again. its not coming from the motor, because the noise isn't there when I pull the clutch lever in and let the bike coast and bring the engine's rpm's up to hear if its coming from the motor while im riding, or if im stopped at a stop sign or at a red light. could this problem be in the clutch or the transmission :? .

NOTE: while im riding at speed, and holding the throttle where the speed and rpm's are balanced,(almost coasting) the noise goes away. any ideas :?:.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:51 am

Transmissions don't typically make a scraping noise. Transmission problems tend to sound like marbles knocking around inside. The scraping sound you describe to me sounds like a clutch issue.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:21 am

good morning wingadmin:

ok, so by what I described and what you are saying, do you think its time to tear the clutch apart and put new steel and friction plates in along with anything else associated with it?

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:17 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:good morning wingadmin:

ok, so by what I described and what you are saying, do you think its time to tear the clutch apart and put new steel and friction plates in along with anything else associated with it?

stuart.


That would be my guess, yes.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:53 pm

hey wingadmin:

well, I just got back from my local bike shop and they told me that just for the labor im looking between $350-$400 bucks :cry: to r&r the clutch, and up to 2 weeks down time and that's if I get all my own parts IE: friction plates, steel plates, springs, cover gasket and clutch cable. so I guess im gonna have to start saving my "pennies" to get this done, or I probably could do this myself, but im not that sure. it says in the repair manual that the motor doesn't have to come off as long as im not changing the outer clutch basket. I don't have a lift so I'd have to do this on the ground. I found all the parts I need on eBay, so getting the parts aren't a problem. its just doing the labor on it that im not sure about.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:45 pm

This is hard to determine without actually being there...However,one question...this noise...say your at cruising speed in OD....does the noise go away if you roll back a bit on the throttle....just enough to take the torque off... how is the noise while accelerating a bit or leveled off....
Could the noise actually be a scraping noise from the rear of the bike?Perhaps a bad wheel bearing allowing it to shift under different conditions.
You might,sense you have a bit of time,get the rear wheel up and check things out...Turn the wheel,listen to it,wiggle things about...

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:04 pm

hey Virgil:

not only at cruising speed, but as im going up into the higher gears, 3rd 4th and OD......yes, the noise goes away when I roll back on the throttle when the "torque" is released, but as soon as I put torque back onto the motor, the noise is there again, but not at a stand-still or when I first start out. that is what's making me think its not in the motor. if it was in the motor, the noise would constantly be there. the front wheel bearing was replaced a week before I left for Florida in 2014. I haven't checked the rear wheel bearing yet, but wouldn't be safe to say if it were the rear wheel bearing, wouldn't the noise be there no matter what?...........if im riding down the road, (and I have done this to check if its coming from the motor), when I hear the noise, I pull in the clutch and coast and the noise stops, but as soon as I let the clutch out, it starts again. even when I rev the motor up while im riding, the noise isn't there as long as I have the clutch lever pulled in. only when im in 3rd, 4th or OD can I hear AND feel it thru the floorboards including down shifting to come to a stop, but it doesn't do it under 20mph as long as im in 1st or 2nd.

I will check the rear wheel bearing tomorrow before I go anywhere on the bike. who knows, even if that's not it, the bearing might need to be replaced anyway. that's a cheap fix. im also wondering if its not coming from the driveshaft or the final drive. I've put gear oil into the rear, (it wasn't low), and pumped grease into the shaft fitting already about a month ago. the driveshaft grease WAS low, but not empty.

im signing off for the night. I'll check this posting out in the morning.

have a good nite y'all.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:14 pm

Ya might even consider the drive shafts splines.
I could never figure out how grease was suppose to get into the splined coupler by squirting it 4 inches up the drive shaft.I always hand coated mine every time I replaced the rear wheel.Grease is cheap and fun to play with.☺

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:44 am

good morning people, Virgil:

wouldn't it stand to reason that if this noise was coming from the driveshaft splines or the rear wheel bearing it would be constant and not go away when the clutch lever is pulled in while the bike was in motion? no, it has to be from somewhere else. since it goes away when the clutch lever is pulled in and comes back when the lever is released, for all intent and purposes it has to be coming from the clutch as wingadmin and I both suspect. its either there or in the transmission, but very doubtful. ya know, im almost tempted to tackle changing this clutch myself. I would hate to give a shop $350-400 bucks to do something I might be able to do myself. the owners/repair cd I have is very detailed and gives step by step instructions on how to do it. only problem is I'd have to do it on the ground unless I go out and buy a bike jack. there's a pawn shop near me that has one, but they want almost 100 bucks for it. im thinking about just going ahead and getting it. even if I use it for only this job it would still be worth it.

I was looking on eBay yesterday, and I found a complete clutch from a seller I've bought parts from before, used, but everything I need from an '82 aspy with only 29,xxx miles on it for only $60 bucks. im considering getting it. 29,xxx miles is not bad.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:59 am

Any more,I never say "has to".
Its easier to pull the arse end out for inspection than remove the clutch.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:56 am

hey Virgil:

yes, it would be easer to pull the back of this bike apart, except for the rear lighted bumper/trailer hitch with all its lights wired up under the seat, not to mention the trailer wire harness I have running thru the inside of the trunk and down to the hitch. everything on the back of this bike will have to come apart to remove the rear wheel. that alone will take me about 2 hours. saddlebags, bumper/trailer hitch, passenger floorboards, seat to get to all the turn signal/running light wires, THEN I can get to the wheel. then remove the 3 nuts that hold the final drive to the rear shaft, axle pinch bolt, axle bolt and the axle itself and the rear disk brake caliper...now remember, im doing all this on the ground. at least I have an air compressor and air tools to make it a little easer. 3/8" and 1/4" air ratchets, and a 1/2 air impact gun.

right now, im on my way to my local outdoor flea market. its only open on Wednesdays, so I have to get going. I might find a motorcycle jack or something that might be useful there. i'll be back in about 2 hours.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:01 am

well, im back from the flea market and didn't find anything useful. oh well, maybe better luck there next week. we have another giant indoor/outdoor flea market only a couple of miles from where we live, they're only open on Saturdays and Sundays, so I'll have to wait until then to go to it. in the mean time, I can look on craigslist or on the harbor freight website to maybe find a motorcycle lift/jack...........Virgil, I checked the rear wheel bearing and its good. no side to side play or noises coming from it, so that rules that out. im still checking other possible places.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:13 am

Keep us up to date.Im not trying to steer you in any one direction.I just do the easy stuff first as a process of elimination.i really like to point my finger at the offending part first.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:10 pm

oh believe me, so do I, but the way this problem is occurring, its not easy. I wish I was able to put this bike on a dyno machine and run it up thru the gears and use a stethoscope to hear exactly where the noise is coming from. cant very well do that while im riding unless I had a side car attached lol. :?: wait...that gives me an idea.....no, forget it :lol:. not gonna happen. yeah, I could just picture me on the dragon with a side car hooked up to it. although I did see one and it had a dog inside it. I have a pic of it somewhere.......here they are :). how's that for a passenger. that is too cute.

stuart.
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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:44 pm

ok......I went to my local pawn shop and as luck would have it, they still had a 1500lb capacity motorcycle jack/lift that I saw there 2 months ago, and since I go there a lot to pawn and buy "stuff" from them, IE: my air compressor and air tools and other miscellaneous items, they gave me a good deal on it. it had a price of $79.99 on it and they let me have it for $40.00 bucks. so I came back home and hooked up my trailer to the bike and went back and trailered it home. I tried it out, and it works great, but the only problem is finding the right spot under the bike's frame to balance it on the lift. maybe now I can tackle this clutch job and save a whole bunch of $$$. boy, this is gonna make it so much easer to remove the front or back tire if and when the time comes.

if I have to change a tire, I can even do that myself now too because a few months ago I went to harbor freight and bought a motorcycle tire bead breaker. so now instead of having to use 2 or 3 screwdrivers to break the bead, all I have to do is use this tool and I can swap out the tires without having to take them to the bike shop and paying $25 bucks a pop to change them. of course I'll still have to have them balanced but that's fine.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:23 pm

Invest in balancing beads.there reusable.no more balancing with weights again.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:41 pm

yeah, I've heard about those, in fact, wingadmin has a posting for them somewhere in here. I'll have to find it and do some more research on them. only drawback to them are they aren't cheap either. I think I saw them on eBay for $30.00 a pack. enough to do one wheel, but your right, they are something to consider.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:05 pm

There's nobody round here that has "Dyna Beads".I got mine off the net(not EBay) about 3 years ago.
Not branded as Dyna beads but the same.I got 4 bags (For 2 bikes),2 oz.per bag for less than $20.I had to call the guy to place the order.Just some commercial tire company but still quick doing business.
Absolutely no idea who it was.
Also forget about trying to sift them through the valve stem.I spent the better part of a hour doing one.After that fiasco,I just popped the bead loose right on the bike with a "C" clamp and poured them in.Never changed the valve stem either.
What a difference they made for a smooth ride too.Better than a spin balance every 2k miles.
Just looking at EBay,I see ceramic balancing beads for bikes at$1.75/ounce.
You only use 2 oz. per tire.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:46 am

virgilmobile wrote:There's nobody round here that has "Dyna Beads".I got mine off the net(not EBay) about 3 years ago.
Not branded as Dyna beads but the same.I got 4 bags (For 2 bikes),2 oz.per bag for less than $20.I had to call the guy to place the order.Just some commercial tire company but still quick doing business.
Absolutely no idea who it was.
Also forget about trying to sift them through the valve stem.I spent the better part of a hour doing one.After that fiasco,I just popped the bead loose right on the bike with a "C" clamp and poured them in.Never changed the valve stem either.
What a difference they made for a smooth ride too.Better than a spin balance every 2k miles.
Just looking at EBay,I see ceramic balancing beads for bikes at$1.75/ounce.
You only use 2 oz. per tire.


In How to install Dyna Beads I installed them through the valve stem using vibration - that was tedious. Subsequently I figured out a much, much easier way of doing it, faster and easier than breaking the bead: Use air pressure.




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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:56 am

good morning Virgil, wingadmin:

yes, I found the posting on the dyna beads and after reading all the postings and how satisfied everyone is with them, I bought some and im waiting for them to get here so I can put them in my tires. I know they are distributed by centrifugal force at high speeds, but what about at low speeds, do they stay stable inside the tire without causing an "out of balance" wobble? I mean I know they are loose inside the wheel, but how can they stabilize at speeds under 25mph. that's what I don't understand.

hey wingadmin, I watched the video you make on how to install the dyna beads, and I want to ask you....where did you get those angled valve stems? can they also be used on an 1100? they look like they make checking the tire pressure so much easer than having to bend the normal rubber stems and risking breaking them. nice video by the way.

stuart.
Last edited by roadwanderer2 on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:05 am

The speeds at which they do not balance, are speeds at which there is insufficient wheel speed for an unbalance to be noticeable. I have never noticed anything except smooth, perfectly balanced wheels. The only thing different is that when you push the bike around in the garage, or spin the rear wheel when it's on the center stand, you can very slightly hear the beads sliding around inside. :)

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:12 am

ok, that's cool, so I would have to be going at about 5mph for them not to be working. that's fine because im hardly ever going that slow if you get my drift lol. that's all I need is to hear more noises coming from this bike lol.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby k1w1t1m » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:50 pm

I had a similar scraping noise on my 1100 a few years ago. It was the rotor scraping on the caliper or caliper bracket (it was a few years and another bike ago). Although the look, feel, and noises of the rear wheel bearings suggested there was nothing wrong with them replacing them solved the issue. Check for shiny spots on the caliper, bracket, and rotor, it might save you some major grief.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:36 pm

hey k1w:
I had the front wheel up in the air the other day and was spinning it and it wasn't making any noise. everything is the way its suppose to be with the front brakes. if the weather is a bit warmer tomorrow, I'll put the back of my bike on my motorcycle jack and spin the rear wheel it to see if the rear bearing along with the final drive, shaft and the rear caliper and its related parts are making any noise, but I seriously doubt it.

the scraping noise goes away if I pull in the clutch lever while im riding and comes back again when the clutch lever is released while im riding. so my theory along with wingadmin is its coming from the clutch, but your thinking is still accurate and will take it under advisement. im sure since I've already replaced the front wheel bearing the rear bearing is due for a changing also.

stuart.

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Re: scraping noise, clutch or transmission?

Postby robertdawber » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:20 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:ok......I went to my local pawn shop and as luck would have it, they still had a 1500lb capacity motorcycle jack/lift that I saw there 2 months ago, and since I go there a lot to pawn and buy "stuff" from them, IE: my air compressor and air tools and other miscellaneous items, they gave me a good deal on it. it had a price of $79.99 on it and they let me have it for $40.00 bucks. so I came back home and hooked up my trailer to the bike and went back and trailered it home. I tried it out, and it works great, but the only problem is finding the right spot under the bike's frame to balance it on the lift. maybe now I can tackle this clutch job and save a whole bunch of $$$. boy, this is gonna make it so much easer to remove the front or back tire if and when the time comes.

if I have to change a tire, I can even do that myself now too because a few months ago I went to harbor freight and bought a motorcycle tire bead breaker. so now instead of having to use 2 or 3 screwdrivers to break the bead, all I have to do is use this tool and I can swap out the tires without having to take them to the bike shop and paying $25 bucks a pop to change them. of course I'll still have to have them balanced but that's fine.

stuart.

Hi Stuart,
I replaced the clutch plates while the motor was in and it was not the difficult. You will not need a new cable. Here is a link to a step by step. It is an 1000 but it was basically the same. You just skip the parts that are not the same. Also-and this is the part that does suck-you will need a special tool to stake the center nut off once you have it open. Save yourself the time and headache and buy the tool on ebay. That is unless you are good at grinding out an old socket. Just take your time. I had never done this and I was just patient. In my case I ended up needing to remove the engine to replace the whole clutch basket. The good news is it is winter here and now I am doing all kinds of stuff to it (water pump, timing belts, stater clutch, stater, etc) Keep good track of where the bolts all go:)!! Here is the link. Good luck
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6905

Bob




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