electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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roadwanderer2
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electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:53 pm



ok, first let me start by saying my battery voltage as been,(for the past year) at a steady 11 volts. never had a problem with it until today. I rode 147 miles to my doctors appointment, got back on the bike after about an hour, the bike fired right up no problem. rode if for about 12 miles, shut it off for about 15 minutes, fired right back up again no problem. rode it for about 1 1/2 hours on the interstate at 70mph, got held up in 2mph bumper to bumper traffic for about 8 miles, (clutch hand cramping up), finally got into open air back up to 70mph when I noticed my volt meter showing only 10 volts output. stopped to eat at a rest area for about 20 minutes, bike fired right up again and still at 10volts output, rode another 19 miles, stopped for tank fill up, shut the bike off then went to turn the key on, pressed the starter button, nothing, it was dead. luckily I was facing downhill so I was able to push start it. rode another 120 miles to my exit, stopped at the bottom of the hill, pulled over to the shoulder to lite a smoke, the shifter showed me being in neutral, it wasn't, it was in gear and when I let out the clutch, it shut off and again dead. I had to call a friend to come out and give me a jump start,(still volt meter showing only 10volts) made it home, rode the bike into the garage, shut it off, went to start it back up, dead again. what the h**l is going on with this thing and what do I need to do to get it right again. anybody have any ideas? voltage regulator was replaced with a NEW one last September.

ok, this is just weird, after only about 10 minutes on my battery tender, the bike fired right up, but its still showing only 10volts on my onboard voltmeter :?.

stuart.



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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:10 pm

ok, so I did some wire checking, took off and cleaned the neg side battery cable and all the other ground wire eyelets I have attached to it, pulled the tank shelter cover off and started checking all the wires under it, the reg/rec which is still good as in no blisters on the back side of it, all the relays, and found something with the fuse block. where the negative wires are screwed down to the negative side of the fuse block, I can lift those wires up out of the fuse block,( see pics below), and when I lift the wires up while the bike is running, (still at 10volts output) all my dash lights go off :o , and when I push the wires back down, my dash lights come back on again :o :?, so I guess its time for a new fuse block because I don't think those ground wires are supposed to be able to move :?. is there a way to take the fuse block apart and fix it or do I have to replace it. anybody have any other ideas as to why my bike isn't getting the correct voltage? with all the added electrical items I have on the bike, should I get a larger fuse block with more fuse space for my new electronics?

stuart.

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roadwanderer2
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Motorcycle: 83 GL1100A aspencade, previously owned, 1981 honda GL500i silverwing interstate, 1974 yamaha xs400, 1974 Honda cb450 twin cam, 1983 honda vt30, 1982 honda 700 shadow, 1972 cb750four, and my first bike, a brand new 1982 honda CM400e. and a new to me 1986 GL1200 aspencade SEi
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:44 am

ok, so I did some wire checking, took off and cleaned the neg side battery cable and all the other ground wire eyelets I have attached to it, pulled the tank shelter cover off and started checking all the wires under it, the reg/rec which is still good as in no blisters on the back side of it, all the relays, and found something with the fuse block. where the negative wires are screwed down to the negative side of the fuse block, I can lift those wires up out of the fuse block,( see pics below), and when I lift the wires up while the bike is running, (still at 10volts output) all my dash lights go off :o , and when I push the wires back down, my dash lights come back on again :o :?, so I guess its time for a new fuse block because I don't think those ground wires are supposed to be able to move :?. is there a way to take the fuse block apart and fix it or do I have to replace it. anybody have any other ideas as to why my bike isn't getting the correct voltage? with all the added electrical items I have on the bike, should I get a larger fuse block with more fuse space for my new electronics?

stuart.
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virgilmobile
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:00 am

You have a great battery and a charging problem...11 volts running is not right...but enough to keep the ignition firing..
After warm up,both my 1100 and 1200 would idle at 13.4 volts and peak out at 14.3 volts...
After you get the charging system fixed,you can replace the entire fuse block with a blade type assembly...If the original is falling apart,bypass it or replace it.
Solder every connection you make....crimping is not good enough..
Your gonna need a DVM to find out why it's not properly charging...unless you put a extra load on the bike....like 2@ 55 watt halogen driving lights. :?:
Is the bike still OEM equipment.?
Have you added anything that would draw in excess of 10 amp total.?

f1xrupr
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:00 am

So...if 11 volts is charged, and 10 volts is discharged, sounds like the volt meter might have a problem also. May I suggest checking the "new" reg/rec first?...might save you a whole bunch of head scratching....(diode test-not visual)
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:21 am

f1xrupr wrote:So...if 11 volts is charged, and 10 volts is discharged, sounds like the volt meter might have a problem also. May I suggest checking the "new" reg/rec first?...might save you a whole bunch of head scratching....(diode test-not visual)


the onboard volt meter is brand new, I just put it on last month. the reg/rec is also new, I put that on last September. I just removed the reg/rec and it looks good, not blistering in the back side, not blackened or melted connectors. I don't know how to test it, how do I go about testing it? I also tried, (since the PO had a lot of the main wires cut and spliced), moving all the wires around while I had the bike running to see if any of them might make the volts go up or down, but it remains at a constant 11volts according to my onboard volt meter.

stuart.

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virgilmobile
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:24 am

Your new meter may be showing the volts on the wiring and not the battery.Put a DVM direct to the battery posts.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:26 am

ok, let me go try that. brb.

stuart.

f1xrupr
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:46 am

Hmmm...ok...this is from memory...I don't know the colors of your after market r/r, these are stock, so you may need to transposed ...3 yellow-1 red-1 black-1 green.
Set volt meter to the diode setting (you should be able to touch the probes together and get a reading). First you must unhook the r/r. You should only get a reading in 1 direction between the red wire and any yellow, and, the black wire and any yellow....but you must get a reading in 1 direction. That checks the rectifier function. May I suggest you study your harness and repair it...sounds like you have a "banjo mess". I still question the function or accuracy of your onboard volt meter.
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

f1xrupr
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:01 am

Hey Stuart...hope lm not to late...just for kicks, how about unhook your green wire only, start the bike, ant tell us what your volt reading is?
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:03 am

virgilmobile wrote:Your new meter may be showing the volts on the wiring and not the battery.Put a DVM direct to the battery posts.
ok, just got back from the auto parts store where I bought my battery, they did an entire charging system check, the battery is putting out 13.5 volts when the bike is off. when I start the bike up the battery is putting out 13.25 volts. everything passed the charging test except for my voltage reg/rec :(. Im going to see if I cant get this "new" one replaced under warrantee, if not, i'll have to buy another one.

stuart.

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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:08 am

Ok...ok...don't cut any wires!!!! :o
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:22 am

f1xrupr wrote:Ok...ok...don't cut any wires!!!! :o


oh trust me, im not gonna do any wire cutting, the PO already did plenty of that lol. btw, when I checked my battery using MY analog volt tester, it burned it out :x. now I have no way to test anything unless I go and buy a new tester :(. I did however find that the wires on the starter solenoid were loose causing a spark every time I pressed the starter button, so I tightened them up.

stuart.

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auctioneeral
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby auctioneeral » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:39 am

That may have fix the problem with loose wire's at the solenoid.

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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:10 am

Hey Stuart, Auction is correct!....that's probably your problem! Hey...the only way your battery could show 13.5 volts at the parts store is that, it was charging on the way there, and 13.25, because you used the starter! By the way...they can test your bat and charge system for output, but as far as diagnostics...no way. That bike don't send codes. I'm not saying that they didn't tell you that....but IMHO....no way...they wouldn't know if it was stator, r/r, bad conection, or what.
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:45 am

auctioneeral wrote:That may have fix the problem with loose wire's at the solenoid.


unfortunately it didn't. I had a spare reg/rec, I put it on and went back to the parts store for a system recheck, this time, while the bike was at idle, the reg/rec passed, but the diodes failed, and when I put it up to 2,500rpm, the rec/rec failed but the diodes passed. im like WTF :o. so now, im at a loss as to what to do. should I bother to remove the motor to get the stator out to replace it or just go with a poorboy alt conversion :?.

stuart.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:49 am

f1xrupr wrote:Hey Stuart, Auction is correct!....that's probably your problem! Hey...the only way your battery could show 13.5 volts at the parts store is that, it was charging on the way there, and 13.25, because you used the starter! By the way...they can test your bat and charge system for output, but as far as diagnostics...no way. That bike don't send codes. I'm not saying that they didn't tell you that....but IMHO....no way...they wouldn't know if it was stator, r/r, bad conection, or what.


well, they put their portable charging tester on it while the battery was still on the bike, and I saw the read-outs myself. something isn't right. why should the battery show 13.5volts while at off, and 13.25 volts when running, and the r/r show bad @2,500rpm and the diodes good, then at idle, the r/r shows bad, but the diodes show good :?

stuart.

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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:59 am

Stuart...the diodes "are" the rectifier. IMHO, the best way to find your problem, is with a volt meter, and follow testing instructions from Wingadmin", and the people of this forum-and find the problem before beginning repairs.
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:17 pm

ok, let me ask you this......is it possible that the wires leading from the stator could be corroded to where they are not making good contact?, and is there a "how-to" article in here somewhere on how to check and clean the stator plug connections?

stuart.

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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:22 pm

I have a question. How is your battery still showing over 13 volts off, and you using your starter and lights-going back and forth to the parts store, and not be charging. That's better than mine! Mines only at 12.47~ off, and there's nothing wrong with mine. Is that 13.5, or, 13.05 when off?
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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roadwanderer2
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:33 pm

f1xrupr wrote:I have a question. How is your battery still showing over 13 volts off, and you using your starter and lights-going back and forth to the parts store, and not be charging. That's better than mine! Mines only at 12.47~ off, and there's nothing wrong with mine. Is that 13.5, or, 13.05 when off?


the parts store is only about a mile from my house. the battery showing 13 1/2 volts when off, and 14.3 when running, but my added on volt meter is only showing 11 volts when bike is running. im wondering if I have the meter installed incorrectly. should one wire,(ground) be grounded to the frame, and the pos, (hot) wire go to the r/r since I want to know what the volts are while the bike is running?

stuart.

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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:48 pm

Yes, bad connection is a possibility. How to? IDK. You can pull the plug and look at the contacts (perticularly the red one), and see if they are coroded. They should be clean brass. Small piece of folded sandpaper, tiny screw drivers, and electrical cleaners can help. (only using electrical spray will not work) It's best to solder once you've isolated your problem. BTW...I can understand how a car analyzer could give goofy information because of the different type of charging system in the bike. In a car, when the battery is charged, the regulator stops sending current to the brushes, which in turn, de-polarizes the armature (turns off the electric magnets). On the other hand, on your bike, the r/r shorts out to the frame when the battery is charged. That might show a "fault" on a auto tester....?
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

f1xrupr
Posts: 396
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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:01 pm

Wow...I can't keep up....you might check to see if your farrings have a good ground (don't assume).....and yes, black to ground Then with some extra wire, hook the positive straight to your battery and see if the meter tests close to correct
If the meter is ok, it needs to be hooked a close to the battery as possable, and still be "switched". You may find 2 screws on top of your fuse box (accessory terminals-fused)-you can hook it to the positive one.
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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roadwanderer2
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Contact:

Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:17 pm

f1xrupr wrote:Yes, bad connection is a possibility. How to? IDK. You can pull the plug and look at the contacts (perticularly the red one), and see if they are coroded. They should be clean brass. Small piece of folded sandpaper, tiny screw drivers, and electrical cleaners can help. (only using electrical spray will not work) It's best to solder once you've isolated your problem. BTW...I can understand how a car analyzer could give goofy information because of the different type of charging system in the bike. In a car, when the battery is charged, the regulator stops sending current to the brushes, which in turn, de-polarizes the armature (turns off the electric magnets). On the other hand, on your bike, the r/r shorts out to the frame when the battery is charged. That might show a "fault" on a auto tester....?


the stator wires are buried so deep behind the motor I cant get to them. I had the bike 3 feet in the air with my jack and I STILL couldn't find them. I tried to rewire my added on volt meter, I left the (-) side attached to the (-) side of the fuse block, and the hot (+) side I ran to the red wire leading into the r/r. when I fired the bike up, the meter showed 11.5 volts. only problem is when I shut the bike off, the volt meter stayed on so I had to connect a on/off toggle switch to get it to shut off when I turned off the bike. even with this hook up, its still reading only 11.5 volts.

stuart.

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Re: electrical issue, voltage drop, dead battery

Postby f1xrupr » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:47 pm

Sounds like that volt meter is ready for file 13.


My exercise bike is a goldwing.


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