cutting out at 5000 rpms


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lgsparks1
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cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:03 am



Okay this is going to be a long story. Over the winter I decided to do a lot of projects on my bike. I sent the carbs to Pistol Pete for complete rebuild. I replaced vale seals, camshaft seals, rebuilt idler pulleys, installed new timing belts, valves adjusted, radiator sent out and thoroughly cleaned, replaced fan switch and thermostat, new hoses, new petcock, cleaned tank, flushed fuel pump, new fuel lines and probably a few other things. All is back together and sound great at startup, BUT a little popping from carbs very infrequently. idles really smooth at 1100 rpm and runs great until you really open the throttle. Initial run went through gears great, cruising at 65 and then punched it. I felt initial jump and then the engine just started to stumble at 5000 rpms. I tried many times with same results. Riding home I tried a few different scenarios to pinpoint the problem and discovered same results in all gears if I run it up to 5000 rpms engine just starts to stumble like starving for fuel. If I keep it below 5000 rpms all is good and bikes runs great, but the thought of keeping my bike below 5000 rpms is not going to happen. Bike was running very well before I tore into it. Now just trying you guys out for some fresh ideas. I am stuck. Fyi sitting still in neutral engine will get past 5000 rpms fine and smooth just not under a load.


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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby sportsfreaked » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:50 am

I am no bike expert but I have worked on many cars and rebuilt motors for years. What you are describing could be related to the fuel filter. I would suggest you are correct in the fuel delivery problem. Did you change the fuel filter as well? It could also be that possibly one of the carbs is out of sync? Just throwing out ideas here and keep in mind I am no expert. I had a car once that ran fine until you stepped on the gas turned out to be a partially clogged fuel filter. When the carb was asking for more gas it couldn't get it because of the filter not allowing the maximum flow of gas. I'm sure others will chime in that have more experience. Please let us know what you find out. Best of luck.
Thanks to all who answer and help. It is greatly appreciated!
Ed

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:02 am

You can also loosen the gas cap to vent it.Just incase the cap valve is stuck leaving the tank with a vacuum and slowing the fuel flow.

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lgsparks1
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:30 pm

Thanks sportsfreaked and virgilmobile. I did change all fuel lines and fuel filter and flushed fuel pump. I am going to look hard at the fuel cap. I manage an equipment rental company and we are always changing out the oem caps on almost all equipment that have Honda engines because of that very problem. I did soak the fuel cap for 4 days in distilled vinegar to remove any rust externally but do not know the condition internally. Does anyone have a part number for an aftermarket fuel cap since this one is no longer available from Honda?
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby sportsfreaked » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:46 pm

Replacement cap is Stant 10810. Are you sure the carbs are in sync?
Thanks to all who answer and help. It is greatly appreciated!
Ed

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby f1xrupr » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:48 pm

Considering Pistol Pete's reputation for carb rebuilds, I think it's safe to suspect in other areas
Not saying these are your problems-just sharing some thoughts....a ignition system functions by charging up, and then discharging when triggered. A healthy ignition system can charge up vary fast, but the weaker a ignition system gets, the longer it takes to charge up. The higher the rpms, the less charging time it has. The less charge it has, the less spark can be produced when triggered. With no load on the engine, there is not much fuel in the combustion chamber, so a weak spark may ignite it-under load, there must be more fuel to burn, and a weak spark may not be saficant. A coil is a transformer. It amplifies power sent from the module. The module has capasidence (charges up). If that capasidence is low, that could be your problem. Now, I only hypothesized all of that from my imagination, baced on similar circuits from other experiences and hobbies, so someone else can probably tell you how to test. The only other thing that comes to mind as a possibility, is a floating valve from a weak/broke spring, or sticking.
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:39 pm

Carbs are definitely synced. Pistol Pete actually puts them on a test engine and syncs them to near perfect before they are sent back. All valves are good. Just replaced valve seals and set valve clearance. All the springs were in fine shape. Intake set to .10mm and exhaust set to .13mm per specs.
Going to try new cap tonight.
Last edited by lgsparks1 on Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:41 pm

Well guys unfortunately problem was not solved by a new gas cap. Search goes on.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby sportsfreaked » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:54 pm

As stated before I am no Goldwing expert just throwing out thoughts. I know Pete put the carbs on a test engine but wouldn't a different engine have a different sync value? I have no idea which is why I am asking therefore I can learn along the way. I know you said you checked it already but are all gas lines free of any pinches? Man I wish I had a magic wand for you :).
Thanks to all who answer and help. It is greatly appreciated!
Ed

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:05 pm

Lines are free and clear of pinches. Check sync on carbs tonight and they are dead on.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby urbanmadness » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:06 pm

could be an ignition problem. Does it just die and fall flat at 5000k under load or does it slingshot when you let off the throttle (if it does it's running a little lean)

Is the fuel filter installed correctly (if the filter is in backwards it will restrict flow)....
Last edited by urbanmadness on Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby RoadRogue » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:28 pm

You stated that you have a new petcock installed. Heres what I was thinking.......
1. The new petcock is restricted , if it was a kit you installed it maybe slightly off. Does it cut out at 5000rpm on both the main tank and when switched to reserve?
2. Could one of the new fuel lines have a leak, say a clamp that is either loose or one that was over tightened?

And heres a thought that is purely a shot in the dark.... does the vaccuum advance diaphragm that is drawn from #3 carb hold vaccuum? Is the timming advance moving? 8-)
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f1xrupr
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby f1xrupr » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:37 pm

If it's fuel starvation, it should respond to
choking when problem occurs.
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby f1xrupr » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:13 pm

In more simple terms, I think your problem may be this;
Ebay item # 230684145381
However, coils break down also.
You may want to check the ground wire at the coils.
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:07 am

FUEL LINES ARE ALL GOOD, NO KINKS OR LEAKS. PETCOCK WAS NOT A KIT BUT ACTUAL NEW HONDA PART. CHANGED IGNITORS AND COILS 8 MONTHS AGO. ALL WAS WORKING PERFECTLY 5 WEEKS AGO WHEN STARTED ALL MY PROJECTS. NOT SAYING IT CAN'T HAPPEN, BUT UNLIKELY COIL OR IGNITORS WENT OUT WHILE BIKE WAS DOWN. NOT SURE ON THE VACCUUM ADVANCE DIAPHRAM HOLDING VACCUUM. I HAVE TO ADMIT I AM NOT REAL FAMILIAR WITH THAT PART OF MY BIKE. HOW CAN YOU TELL IF THE TIMING IS ADVANCING, BUT AGAIN COULD THAT GO OUT WITH THE BIKE JUST SITTING. I AM THOROUGHLY BAFFLED. ALL WAS WELL WITH MY BIKE BEFORE PROJECTS WERE STARTED. I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD GET THESE THINGS DONE WHILE I HAD THE TIME. I WILL TRY RUNNING TONIGHT AND TEST WITH PETCOCK IN RESERVE POSTION. I WILL ASLO TRY THE SUGGESTION OF APPLYING CHOKE. ANY AND ALL SUGGESTIONS ARE APPRECIATED.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:14 am

ALSO FUEL FILTER IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY. IT DOES NOT DIE AT 5000 RPMS JUST FEELS LIKE YOU HIT A WALL. I WON'T GO PAST 50000 RPMS AND JUST DOES NOT SOUND HAPPY ALL, ALOT OF SPUTTERING. GOES IMMEDIATELY BACK TO SMOOTH AS SOON AS YOU LET OF THE THROTTLE OFF A HAIR, BUT NO SLINGSHOT.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby f1xrupr » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:09 am

I have had electronics go bad while sitting, but only once, and that was on a outboard boat motor, so, it's not likely, but is possibly. Maybe you still have your old ones just in case. It is however likely that a ground or other conection has coroded, and is still allowing limited current-vary common on these bikes as I am learning first hand as of lately. Sounds like a really nice bike with all those new parts on it!...you'll get it right though...hope we are not aggravating you...we are just anxious to help...
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:34 am

Oh man I hope I am not sounding grateful. Goldwingdocs is the best community of riders I have ever met. I can't believe all of the people that are willing to help troubleshoot. Aggravated with bike, but not the help I am getting. The thing that is stumping me is most electrical problems I have run into are intermittent and this problem is so consistent at 5000 rpm's. I can still ride for now because the bike runs great as long as I don't try to go over 5000 rpms. I just want fast sometimes. Maybe God's trying to tell me something.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:51 am

Try something here,, block off the vacuum advance,, pull the hose at carb #3 and block it off and go out and ride it and see if there is any change....It's worth trying... My thought is if your vacuum advance diaphragm has blown out it may be sucking in a lot of air maybe bogging it down under a load....Block it off and it may not do that,,I'm not sure...This is why Todd asked if you checked the Vacuum advance I think...

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:17 am

Will try blocking off vacuum on #3 tonight as soon as I get home and will post results. thanks.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby f1xrupr » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:26 am

This is going to sound like something I made up, but honestly it's not...years ago I had the same exact problem on a gs 550 t, and it turned out to be paperwork from a adjustable sissy bar/luggage rack that I had installed on the road, that I had stuck under my seat, and clogged my air box. It actually kept my brother from getting a traffic ticket....long story, and different than you might think. You don't have a grease rag under the faux shelter do you?
Last edited by f1xrupr on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:27 am

sure,,it's a long shot... :D But it's free...

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:11 pm

Does it bog down, or does it sputter? The first is like when it runs out of gas, the second is when there is insufficient spark. If you've felt them both, you'll know the difference.

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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:17 pm

That was the first thing I actually looked at, believe it or not. My buddy Shane is the manager at our local Honda Motorcycle dealership and that is what he told me to look for.
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Re: cutting out at 5000 rpms

Postby lgsparks1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:03 pm

WingAdmin,
It feels like a combo of both. When it gets to 5000 rpms it sounds like is bogging down then you get a sputtering noise with it. Twist the throttle as much as you want it is not going past 5000 rpms. Back the throttle off just a hair and you are right back to running fine. So as long as I keep it 65mph and under and don't get crazy in 1st through 5th I am good.


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