Water Pump Leak


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Sat May 09, 2015 7:34 pm



Ok, so I have finished installing a new water pump in my 1980 GL1100. Lubed all the o-rings well and took my time, so I am 90% sure i didn't pinch any seals. I ran the motor last night for 30-45 minutes and had no leaks. This afternoon i reinstalled all the body work, seat, etc and started in for a few minutes to move it. 5 minutes laster ther was a small puddle of antifreeze coming from the weep hole. I dried everything off and let it run for another 30 minutes, then rode it for another 20 minutes, now no leak. Didn't I read somewhere that the seals may take a few heat cycles to seat and seal properly?
I used a new honda water pump and seals shown in the 'how to". The oil also looks clear of any water/oil mixture.

On a side note, I can't wait to get some riding time in on this bike. It's my first Honda and love it. For a barn find that has been sitting for a few years, it has cleaned up pretty well. Things I've done so far: new water pump, new tining belts, radiator cap, hoses, thermostat, set the valves, synced the carbs, replaced dash bulbs with leds and headlight with silverstar ultra.



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Aussie81Interstate
Posts: 683
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:34 am
Location: Penrith Australia
Motorcycle: 1982 CX500 Turbo (restoration project)
1981 GL1100 Interstate (sold)
1988 GL1500

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby Aussie81Interstate » Sat May 09, 2015 8:35 pm

If you have put new seals in - then give it a chance to bed in a little bit - but I would be wary of ANY coolant from the weep hole area. check it every few days - not much to get down on your hands and knees and look under the bike for the leak - it's the getting up that takes the longest.. :)

Just make sure it is not running from the outer case seal (like the water pump cover)- as it can finish up looking like it is coming from the weep hole.

Looks like a nice bike as well - another one rescued. :)

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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Mon May 18, 2015 6:51 pm

Well, I have been monitoring the water pump weep hole leak on the new install and it hasn't quit. Only leaks after riding, while the motor cools down. So today, while I was off I pulled everything out again to check it out. The o-ring had not twisted (it was very well lubed), but he o-ring i was concerned about (the oil side) had gotten piched and cut. The oil wasn't leaking yet, but it would have been a matter of time.

To me it appears that the K&L o-ring for the water side is undersized and not a good fit. Also the oil side o-ring was undersized when I put it in. It didn't fit the groove well and I had to strecth it to make it fit. That is probably why it came out of the groove and got cut. Has anyone else had issues with the K&L o-ring sizes?

I orderd another kit today, this time from Cyclemax, we will see what we get.

tarlcabot
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:35 am
Location: West Valley City, UT
Motorcycle: 1981 Gl1100

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby tarlcabot » Wed May 20, 2015 11:50 am

I've gone through about the same scenario as you. Put just under 500 miles on the bike and it started leaking a mix of oil and coolant. Happens mostly overnight after a ride. I wanted to recheck the timing belts anyway, so stripped it down and have broken the bolts on the front cover loose. I have the same gasket/o-ring kit you did, so waiting for your update before I go any further.

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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Wed May 20, 2015 12:53 pm

tarlcabot, I will post an update once I get the new set of seals. I put around 250 miles on mine and it never did seal. I am debating if i should use Permatex Water Pump And Thermostat RTV Silicone on the water side seal of the pump,because it was leaking there. See pic, large diameter o-ring.



I used silicone lube last time.
Also waiting to find out if this oil side seal is the proper diameter or it is small again and doesn't stay in the groove. This is oring #6 below:


tarlcabot
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:35 am
Location: West Valley City, UT
Motorcycle: 1981 Gl1100

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby tarlcabot » Wed May 20, 2015 3:39 pm

I was talking to a friend that happens to be an engineer. I explained to him what had happened to you and he told me Buna rubber O-rings exposed to ultraviolet or incandescent light cure at an accelerated rate and his company experienced their O-rings shrinking if left exposed to light for as little as 2 days. Seems the assemblers would remove the entire contents of a package when they opened it, and leave them on the table top. The compression seals still worked fine, but the O-rings that had to seal like the ones on the pump body failed. Now I'm wondering if the display type packaging the K&L comes in is allowing those two to shrink?

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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Wed May 20, 2015 3:48 pm

That very well could be. Especially if they were sitting out in the open, instead of boxed up. I used to work in a injection rubber plant years ago and we always had issues with neoprene rubber and dimensions holding true. That is one reason I tried another place to purchase, hoping that their stock is fresh and not sitting around. Even when I pulled it apart after a week, the paper gaskets were trashed, and I used nothing on them.

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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Thu May 21, 2015 7:28 pm

Well the new seal pack came today, so tonight I started on reassembly, but I think there is an issue.
Look at the pic below. The o-ring is in the groove tight, but it again does not fit the total groove without trying to stretch it. Is this normal on this seal? Or are ther certain years that may require diiferent size o-rings? This is the one of the same issues I had on the first go around.



Any ideas, or comments?

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Aussie81Interstate
Posts: 683
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:34 am
Location: Penrith Australia
Motorcycle: 1982 CX500 Turbo (restoration project)
1981 GL1100 Interstate (sold)
1988 GL1500

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby Aussie81Interstate » Thu May 21, 2015 9:24 pm

When the O ring is set in the groove - does it sit PROUD of the casing?

It does look a bit smaller than what is required -have you measured it ?

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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Thu May 21, 2015 9:32 pm

Yes, when it sets in the groove all the way, it is so small it quickly rolls back out of the groove.
I left my calipers at work, but I plan to see if the local dealer has the mother honda part in stock to compare sizes.

The first time i did this, I tried to keep it place with grease, hoping the case would roll it in the groove. But instead it just cut the o-ring in two pcs.

As many people have seemed to use the K&L seals kit, I am suprised this hasn't come up sooner on a post.

tarlcabot
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:35 am
Location: West Valley City, UT
Motorcycle: 1981 Gl1100

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby tarlcabot » Mon May 25, 2015 5:11 pm

Gamartin; Did you get a Honda factory O-ring yet? I'm kinda stuck on the pump shaft seal. It refuses to come out, and I have torn it. Seems to be a metal plate or washer inside the seal, and it doesn't want to budge. Resistance is futile, but it's making a fight of it.

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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Mon May 25, 2015 8:31 pm

tarlcabot: I was down visiting my kids this weekend and just got home. There is a clear diiference between the K&L oring and the Honda part. I haven't tried to put it together, will do that on Tuesday, but here is a picture of the difference. Mother Honda part is on the left. The K&L o-ring is thicker. The OD's seem to maych up, but the ID's are different. This should be why it will not stay in the grovve properly. I will know more tomorrow when I put it back together.

Makes you wonder what else in the aftermarket kit is slightly different?

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gamartin
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I Interstate

Re: Water Pump Leak

Postby gamartin » Tue May 26, 2015 10:47 am

Put the bike back together this morning. I can say that the Honda o-ring fit way better than the aftermarket. Once it was put in the groove, it stayed there. Here is a picture showing it's fit, versus the picture above with the aftermarket seal.

I ran the motor for until it completed one heat cycle with the cooling fan cycling. So far no leaks.

My conclusion is that the Honda o-ring figment is alot better than the aftermarket. I also now wonder about the water side seal for the water pump, if the OEM seal is a better fit, which would eliminate alot of issues with leaks. (but as long as mine doesn't leak, I am not volunteering to pull it out again :) )




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