cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses


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cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:41 am



ok, here's a new question.

last week i installed a new cigarette lighter socket and lighter top using 10 gauge wire with supplied fuse. im running to the + wire to the + side of the battery and the neg wire to the ground side of the battery. now my problem is this.......every time i use it, it keeps blowing out the fuse. I've tried using fuses from 5amp up to 40amps and no matter what fuse i use, or where i connect the wires to it keeps blowing the fuses out. i thought it might be the lighter socket so i replaced it with another new one and put an extra piece of plastic inbetween the top and socket thinking it was grounding out against the top part when i pushed the top in, but the same thing happens. i can use it one or two times then it blows the fuse out.

anyone have any ideas as to why this keeps happening?

stuart.



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RBGERSON
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby RBGERSON » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:07 am

It's getting too hot..bigger wiring???
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:50 am

Hey RB, that's what i thought too, but when it is working, and after about 30 seconds when the top pops out, you can barely see the coil glowing so i know its not getting really hot. that's why i cant understand why this thing keeps blowing out the fuses. could it be that i should be using 12-14 gauge wire instead of the 10 gauge?

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby RBGERSON » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:12 am

something easy to try..just wire it up outside the bike as a test..
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:14 am

i did that quite a few times, and it worked, but as soon as i reconnect it to where i have it that you see in the pic, it works maybe twice before blowing out the fuse.

below is 2 pics, one of the front side where i have it mounted on the bike, and one of the back side of the lighter socket with the inline fuse. i cant understand why this thing keeps blowing out fuses. i have it on there so i don't have to stop while im riding to light up a cigarette :evil:. i have this mounted exactly the same way i had one mounted on my silverwing and that one never gave me any problems like this one is.

i was just talking with a friend of mine and he suggested i try using a 50amp or higher fuse since im using 10gauge wire. im gonna go to my local parts store and get a couple of 50's and try that. maybe im not using a high enough amp fuse?

stuart.
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby CMReynolds1 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:49 am

Maybe it is trying to tell you to quit smoking???!!! LOL
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby redbug » Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:09 am

Do I see only one wire to the lighter to the center post or element and no wire to the outside ground connection on the round part that screws on and holds the lighter in place?
" Ridin on Tulsa Time "

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby CMReynolds1 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:17 pm

I don't think a 50 amp fuse should be used. There is nothing on the bike that draws the kind of amps except maybe in the starter circuit. Have you ohmed the light case and the actual lighter element? I would check that to see if one of them is shorted. You said you replaced the light holder, but did you try a different element assembly? Also looking at you pic it seems the lighter assy. is bent. Might it be bent enough that it is shorting to the case??
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:31 pm

CMReynolds1 wrote:Maybe it is trying to tell you to quit smoking???!!! LOL


ha ha, very funny lol. yeah, i'll quit smoking....when im 6' under THATS when i'll quit smoking.

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:33 pm

redbug wrote:Do I see only one wire to the lighter to the center post or element and no wire to the outside ground connection on the round part that screws on and holds the lighter in place?


no, there's 2 wires, one to the + post on the lighter, and a -neg ground wire to the grounding side of the lighter socket.

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:37 pm

CMReynolds1 wrote:I don't think a 50 amp fuse should be used. There is nothing on the bike that draws the kind of amps except maybe in the starter circuit. Have you ohmed the light case and the actual lighter element? I would check that to see if one of them is shorted. You said you replaced the light holder, but did you try a different element assembly? Also looking at you pic it seems the lighter assy. is bent. Might it be bent enough that it is shorting to the case??


haven't done any ohm checks. didn't think i needed to do that.....new lighter socket and the element are both new. the "bent" that you see is the angle of how its installed. its put into where the stock radio used to be, and there is a piece of plastic inbetween the element and the socket holder. i put in a 40amp blade fuse and its seems to be working.......for now anyway. i also moved the fuse holder on the outside of the plastic so i can get to it easer instead of having to constantly remove the plastic insert every time i have to replace the fuse.

stuart.
Last edited by roadwanderer2 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby CMReynolds1 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:50 pm

I know lighters usually take a slow blow fuse. You may have to go to a lower glass one if the 40 won't work. The duration of the amps being drawn to heat the unit is what is most likely taking it out. A slo blow is designed to handle that, but they only come in the glass or ceramic style, not in blade style ( that I know of ).
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:20 pm

well, so far the 40amp blade fuse is working, but i COULD change out the inline blade fuse to a inline glass one, but what amp fuse should i use, 20, 30amp?

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby CMReynolds1 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:24 pm

Actually Stuart, a 15 amp slo blow fuse would most likely do the trick. The thing is that the slo blow will take the heat that a lighter circuit will create while it heats up.
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:32 pm

ok, i can understand that, but why would it blow out every blade fuse from a 5amp all the way up to a 40amp, that's what i don't understand. both the receptacle and the element are new, nothing is grounding out against anything, but it keeps blowing out fuses. would changing to a 10 amp glass fuse make that much of a difference?

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby CMReynolds1 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:54 pm

All fuses open (or blow) when the amperage goes above their rating or a direct short occurs. This due to heat created by resistance. When you increase up to the 40 or 50 amp then they will take a lot more heat for a longer time. However they would allow the wiring to overheat as it may not be able to withstand the heat that is being generated and you could get a fire or melt down. A slow blow fuse allows the circuit to protect the wiring and yet still take the heat in the fuse. They will still work immediately in a direct short. The bad thing is they don't make them in the blade style, at least that I know of. So you have to go to either a glass fuse or a ceramic one. I would recommend a ceramic, only because the are for rough environments. The vibration of a bike may cause the glass to break. Thus the vote is for the ceramic. Pricing is not bad, they are close in price. Radio Shack has them. Slo Blow are listed as Fuse Types: MDL, GDL, or 313 These are the glass ones. So a 10 MDL or a 15 MDL would work.

Here is a manufactures explanation of fuses:

Fuses interrupt overload and short-circuit currents. Overload currents typically are up to 10 times larger than the fuse’s available amp rating and occur when your equipment draws more current than it needs. Short circuits are greater than 10 times the fuse’s amp rating and occur when the current finds a “shortcut” outside its normal path.

Time-delay fuses delay opening on low-level overloads until the overload has been sustained for a specific amount of time. This prevents the fuse from blowing when exposed to harmless temporary overload currents such as motor startups and switching surges. Some time-delay fuses are also known as dual-element fuses.

Fast-acting fuses do not have a time-delay opening. Use them when temporary overload currents are not present. Suitable for resistive loads that don’t surge, such as heating and lighting.

Amp rating is the maximum current that a fuse carries under normal conditions.

Interrupt-current rating is the maximum current that a fuse can safely stop in the event of a short circuit.

Hope this all helps.
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby AZgl1800 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:46 pm

I am not a smoker, have never, ever, had a cigarette lighter in any vehicle.

But, I use that port as a power source for a lot of stuff.

And what I have found is that some power plugs are not formed correctly to keep the barrel straight so that the center pin will ONLY touch the hot button in the power socket.

Some of the cheap ones I have discarded will get crosswise and short the center pin to the ground side... and poof! no fuse.
That just happened to me today.... another bad plug to replace.
John
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:49 am

CMReynolds1 wrote:All fuses open (or blow) when the amperage goes above their rating or a direct short occurs. This due to heat created by resistance. When you increase up to the 40 or 50 amp then they will take a lot more heat for a longer time. However they would allow the wiring to overheat as it may not be able to withstand the heat that is being generated and you could get a fire or melt down. A slow blow fuse allows the circuit to protect the wiring and yet still take the heat in the fuse. They will still work immediately in a direct short. The bad thing is they don't make them in the blade style, at least that I know of. So you have to go to either a glass fuse or a ceramic one. I would recommend a ceramic, only because the are for rough environments. The vibration of a bike may cause the glass to break. Thus the vote is for the ceramic. Pricing is not bad, they are close in price. Radio Shack has them. Slo Blow are listed as Fuse Types: MDL, GDL, or 313 These are the glass ones. So a 10 MDL or a 15 MDL would work.

Here is a manufactures explanation of fuses:

Fuses interrupt overload and short-circuit currents. Overload currents typically are up to 10 times larger than the fuse’s available amp rating and occur when your equipment draws more current than it needs. Short circuits are greater than 10 times the fuse’s amp rating and occur when the current finds a “shortcut” outside its normal path.

Time-delay fuses delay opening on low-level overloads until the overload has been sustained for a specific amount of time. This prevents the fuse from blowing when exposed to harmless temporary overload currents such as motor startups and switching surges. Some time-delay fuses are also known as dual-element fuses.

Fast-acting fuses do not have a time-delay opening. Use them when temporary overload currents are not present. Suitable for resistive loads that don’t surge, such as heating and lighting.

Amp rating is the maximum current that a fuse carries under normal conditions.

Interrupt-current rating is the maximum current that a fuse can safely stop in the event of a short circuit.

Hope this all helps.


'morning CMR, and thanks for all this info. i have a radio shack near to me, i can go and check them out tomorrow as they are not open today.

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:50 am

AZgl1500 wrote:I am not a smoker, have never, ever, had a cigarette lighter in any vehicle.

But, I use that port as a power source for a lot of stuff.

And what I have found is that some power plugs are not formed correctly to keep the barrel straight so that the center pin will ONLY touch the hot button in the power socket.

Some of the cheap ones I have discarded will get crosswise and short the center pin to the ground side... and poof! no fuse.
That just happened to me today.... another bad plug to replace.


maybe i should invest in a real "motorcycle" cigarette lighter. one that's specificity made just for motorcycles.

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby 4wred » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 am

Every car I own has a "blade fuse" for the cig. lighter,they work in cars all the time.Sounds like there's something else going on there.You said it worked okay outside the bike so something in your installation has got to be causing the problem??

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby CMReynolds1 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:21 am

Stuart you may want to recheck connections before you do the time delay fuse. A good point that I missed is that cars work fine. I think a complete check of the wire connections and then a check the insulation all the way to the lighter to make sure it is not cut and pinched somewhere. The car lighter statement is the elephant in the room that I missed!
Try rechecking everything first. You may want to do an amp draw check with the lighter also.

Stuart here is a link telling how to check amperage on a circuit in case you are not sure.

http://www.wikihow.com/Measure-Amperage
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby redbug » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:39 am

Over the years I have installed a lot of cigar or power ports and here is what I have learned in the past. The receiver as you have, have the little L-bracket that screws on to the center post for a flat female connector. I have seen and done, use too big of a connector that will touch the side of the socket and short out or arc to blow the fuse. These l brackets will come loose and turn, become loose and go directly to ground. Even when you assemble the lighter into the panel everything distorts a little and when you connect the positive connector to the bracket sometimes it will blow a fuse because there is no room for error and will ground out. You might want to pull the plug and look for arcing on or around the connector or the lighter. Also if the positive element is not tight in the holder it will sometimes go to ground.
The solution I have found is buy a lighter with the pigtail that goes on the threaded shaft instead of the L bracket. Just looking on e-bay, I found one that fits a Honda 2005 model auto and it has the pigtail and a fuse holder(5amp) complete for well 5 to 11 dollars. There are others out there, just looked up a honda and liked it.
It is something simple, and it is going to be one of those aw man things. keep us posted.
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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:45 am

4wred wrote:Every car I own has a "blade fuse" for the cig. lighter,they work in cars all the time.Sounds like there's something else going on there.You said it worked okay outside the bike so something in your installation has got to be causing the problem??


well, today i had to take a ride to my "local" harbor freight store, (48 miles each way) to buy 3 tire spoons so i can put my new front tire on, and it worked ok, but on the way back, i noticed while trying to push the element in, it sparked, didn't blow the fuse, but i did see it spark. i have no idea why this thing is doing it. this is ridiculous its all brand new, it shouldn't be doing it.

stuart.

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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby CMReynolds1 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:58 am

Stuart the sparking is telling me the unit is defective. I think you should maybe look for a much better one. Try the online one, I bet it will fix the issue and you will not need to change any fuses. The spark (or short) is the issue. So ignore all the other rhetoric I was telling you. My troubleshooting was based on a good lighter assembly. Sorry.

I asked redbug to send you a link to what he found.
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Taz


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Re: cagarette lighter keeps blowing fuses

Postby redbug » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:15 am

Ok, here are two lighters,391170107794 the jumbodepot or 360876299626 discountbodyparts .


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