Ignition malfunction


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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Brokespoke
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Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100a Aspencade

Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:45 pm



My 1982 gl1100 has been in the shop for six months and it still doesn't run right. The carbs have been rebuilt by three differ an technicians but this has not fixed the problem.
I feel that the ignition system is the problem. As I try to accelerate it does not increase power, but bogs down and starts to back fire from the exhaust.
I was told that the Hall effect system is a very common problem with this bike.
Can anyone advise me what to check?



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virgilmobile
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:44 pm

Is the bike back I your possession?
Do you have access to a compression gauge,small mirror,voltmeter,basic hand tools.?

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littlebeaver
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:13 pm

It sounds like your timing belts could be off,,, have you check the timing belts? This could be so many things,, 3 yellow wire connection plug,, did you repair that(solder)....Research 3 yellow stator wires if you have not... Another plug at the same location or just above goes to the pulse generator, check the ohms to the plug that goes to the PG... Manual gives ohms....Check your spark, here's how I check the spark,, others do it different than I do... I just hook up a timing light to each wire and see if it strobes LOL :lol: :lol: It's the Beaver way...That mother better strobe lol You could check the ohm at the caps and coil too...

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:12 am

Yes I have access to the bike and I have plenty of tools at my disposal.

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:15 am

I will check the items you suggested and post my findings.
Thank you so much for you help.

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:40 am

My alternator is charging. Doesn't the stator have to be working for the charging system to work?
How does the stator effect the ignition?

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littlebeaver
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:21 am

It really doesn't, but you want to check it anyway is all...Could be all burnt up....Or not...

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virgilmobile
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:39 pm

Approach this bike like you've ever see it before.Your test run yeilds a poor running engine and popping in the exhaust.This is fuel that simply passes the normal firing cylinder and accumilates in the exhaust I till it's ignited.
Keeping in mind,for a cylinder(1 each) to fire properly,it must have sutable compression..above 130 is nice..Plenty of spark at the right time and the correct fuel mixture.
Start with the easy stuff.Start the engine from cold.Idle only for 6-8 seconds.Lightly tap each header.A cold header is a dead cylinder.
How many and which ones.?
This will lead you to why.
Poor ignition(spark)
Timing belts a tooth or 2 off?
Valve lash too wide or tight?

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:20 pm

OK:
I looked at the bike today. Here is what I know for a fact!
I start the 1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade and it seems to Idle fine. After it warms up I begin to accelerate the throttle and the engine falls flat and dies if I do not release the accelerator.
If I then spray carb cleaner directly in to the air inlet with the air filter removed as I accelerate and begins to bog down, the engine revs up and does not die.
I checked the charging system at the battery and I measure 13.4 volts at idle and 14.2 at 2000 rpm.
I ohmed both pulse generator coils and they measure 1240 homes at the plug which it unplugged.
I used a timing licht to assure I wasn't loosing spark at the plug wires. I do not loose ignition and the plugs are new. The stator plug has already been repaired and each wire from the stator measures 6.3 volts with the engine running.
The carbs have been rebuilt by the different technicians and appear to be ok.
I used a different fuel supply hose attached to the fuel pump and this did not make any difference.
I am at a loss to understand the problem.
I do know that carb cleaner in the air inlet causes the engine to rev up when I accelerate the throttle.
HELP me if you dare.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:16 pm

I ain't scared.
Start the bike from cold.Do not rev it up.idle it for 6-8 seconds.shut it down and lightly tap each header.A cold headed is a dead cylinder.
Yes I've seen a wing idle pretty good on just 2 cylinders.
If all are equally warm,we can assume the spark is in the correct order and the fuel idle circuit is ok.

tomos
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby tomos » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:29 pm

What I have to suggest is this :
Get a can of see foam " carb and fuel injection cleaner" and pour in a fuel tank ,get bike runing for a 15min ,leave it for a couple of days than blow some air through open fuel tap in order to dislog any build up in tank pipes and pipe mesh. Fuel pump could be blocked as well so see foam should soften if not completely melt any fuel grime within pump.
Get a new fuel hoses and new fuel filter .
Discard old gasoline and get galon of premium quality gasoline .Drive several miles and test.
If problem persist ,check out fuel pump , on my pump membrane had a rust built-up ! !!
This way you will know that fuel supply is ok.
No offense to any one but carbs should be done by Pistol Pete's service . My experience with Pete is fenomenal!!
In mean time check out vacuum advancer,is it free moving ?
Check out valves and timing.
I have rebuild my bike point by point and found out that if you want it to run properly you must check out every system thoroughly , especially on 33+ years old bikes.
Good luck ,
Regards Zoran

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littlebeaver
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:48 pm

I wonder if the guys rebuilding the carbs were Goldwing trained in rebuilding and setting the float heights proper....Kinda sounds like its starving for fuel....Mine were so far off when I got mine I wanted to smack someone...... :lol:

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:17 am

Does anyone know of a good wing tech in the Pasadena area?
I can't help but feel that the carbs are not right as well.
Being a "Master L1 certified" automotive technician and instructor for over 20 years I tend to complicate things.
In reality when I looked at the wiring diagrams and fuel delivery system I see that this system works just like a car.
If this were a 1982 Chevy camera I would tell you that there is something wrong with the carbs.
If I am understanding it correctly, of the 7 different stages in the carburetor the only stages that are adjustable are the float level, the air mixture screws, and curb idle stop screws. Then just like a dual carb MGBG-II coupe the carbs "must be winked to operate in unison with each other.
Would this be a fair assessment?
I am one of the few technicians in the Pasadena, Deerpark, and LaPorte area that is not afraid to rebuild and adjust carbs properly on a vehicle. I had no time to do it myself at the time but now I think I will take these carbs off and rebuild them myself. All I need is the manual, spec chart and a few good friends that have been there before me.
What do you all think? Should we do this or am I asking for trouble?

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virgilmobile
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:38 am

Your assessement of the operation of the engine and carbs is correct.A simple quad carburated flat 4 water cooled engine.
Just like the Subaru.Almost.
Being a master mechanic,you should also understand the basics of spark,compression and fuel mixture and identifying why a cylinder(s) is not firing well.
The last part is procedures.What do you look at first.
Please don't bounce all over the bike.Identify if all cylinders are firing first.one step at a time.

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littlebeaver
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:40 am

Yes a fair assessment, You will need to remove #1 and #3 carb caps to pull out the rack out the battery side, mark them and don't mix them up....I loosen the cables then as I pull it out a little I can remove them easier, same with installing.. Mark one so you don't mix them up, it's easy to do... :D

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:57 am

I agree. I will verify the ignition and cylinder operation before I yank the carbs.
Thank you all for your help. I will keep you posted as I go.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:02 am

I have seen this as simple as the 2 plug wires reversed on one side.This engine will run on 2 cylinders.
One side cold headers and popping in the exhaust.
Check it out.

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littlebeaver
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:40 am

I am pretty sure the 1100 coil set up is the same as the 1000....

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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:44 am

Brokespoke wrote:Does anyone know of a good wing tech in the Pasadena area?
I can't help but feel that the carbs are not right as well.
Being a "Master L1 certified" automotive technician and instructor for over 20 years I tend to complicate things.
In reality when I looked at the wiring diagrams and fuel delivery system I see that this system works just like a car.
If this were a 1982 Chevy camera I would tell you that there is something wrong with the carbs.
If I am understanding it correctly, of the 7 different stages in the carburetor the only stages that are adjustable are the float level, the air mixture screws, and curb idle stop screws. Then just like a dual carb MGBG-II coupe the carbs "must be winked to operate in unison with each other.
Would this be a fair assessment?
I am one of the few technicians in the Pasadena, Deerpark, and LaPorte area that is not afraid to rebuild and adjust carbs properly on a vehicle. I had no time to do it myself at the time but now I think I will take these carbs off and rebuild them myself. All I need is the manual, spec chart and a few good friends that have been there before me.
What do you all think? Should we do this or am I asking for trouble?


With your background, I don't think you'd have any difficulty, these carbs are not rocket science. I would recommend using one of Randakk's carb kits, all parts are equal to or better than OEM, and he also sells a rebuild manual that tells a great deal that the service manual leaves out. You can see them here: http://randakks.com/collections/honda-gl1100

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littlebeaver
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:58 am

It's so much like a automobile several of us have installed auto type alternators..LOL I feel like mine is a car sometimes....A car on wheels....55 amps :shock: My 81 sounds awesome when I throttle it up riding around especially with ear plugs in,,, the engine and exhaust sound is badass.... When on the interstate I hit the throttle and it sounds like an old ford fairlane getting it... Really cool man...I feel towards the Goldwing the same as the Harley dudes for their Harley's....except mine will out last theirs...LOL

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littlebeaver
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:05 pm

a car on 2 wheels is what I meant...Dugh..... :lol: :lol:

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wingman12
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby wingman12 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:48 pm

Good evening brokespoke, I recently had the pleasure of returning a 1982 1100 I back from the grave. I had the same issues you are experiencing and it came down to the carbs. I thriple checked the timing (after putting on new timing belts) adjusted the valves, checked the coils, the 3 yellow wire connection from the stator, checked the regulator output, changed the dog bone fuse to a updated blade fuse, cleaned all grounds. The bike still would not run right. Bit the bullet and bought the Randall's carb rebuild kit. Did it myself with the help of this forum and problems solved. I did however have to purchase 4 slow speed idle jets and 1 fuel/air mixture screw. Carb sync is also very important in making things work at their best.

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:42 pm

OK: After checking exhaust temp and verifying that the ignition was firing on all cylinders I pulled the carbs off as advised. Before removing the bowls I was advised to measure the volume of each bowl by filling the carbs with fuel from a bottle and then shut off the bottle.
I measured the volume out of the bowl drain on each carb. I got volumes of 39 ml, 41 ml, 45 ml, and 48ml. Does anyone know how much fuel should be in the bowls if the floats are adjusted correctly?

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:55 pm

I'm absolutely clueless on the ammount....However because they are different,you may have found the problem...Balance the carbs for idle but at least one is gonna run rich in comparison to the others.
My personal suggestion is to reset the floats...Tilt the carb body till they just rest against the spring loaded needle valve...Adjust the "tang" till the float measures correctly...all the way level both ways...both sides
When done,fill the carbs again,shut off the fuel and measure again..They should be all equal.
Vacuum test the slide action.
Keep us posted.

Brokespoke
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Re: Ignition malfunction

Postby Brokespoke » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:05 pm

I was wandering how to vacuum test the slides. I will post the volumes when I know the floats are set correctly.




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