destroy the head and camshaft?


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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robertdawber
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destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:21 am



If I replace only the valve train and not the entire head I would ruin the head and camshaft. Is this true?
I would rather just replace the valve train.



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virgilmobile
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:41 am

If your referring to replacing the camshaft only...
The only thing to think about is the wear points.The point of contact of the replacement cam on the rocker arm and the "bearing" that it rides in.
Usually if the bearing seat is undamaged,ill set the cam by its self and check for binding.If its smooth,then add the new or matching rockers.Look close at the contact on the valve stem for abnormal wear too.They can be noisy with a new wear pattern.

robertdawber
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:38 am

Thanks for the quick reply:)
I may have used the wrong words.
I want to just put this part in and not the whole head. I would use my old shaft.
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virgilmobile
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:07 am

I understand now.Keep the cam,change the rocker assembly.OK.
Same things.A cam and rocker "wear" together.You see ridges and flat spots sometimes.When one is attached to a different head,those wear areas don't match the original.These changes are not detrimental but can have a undesirable effect.
The bearing seat in the cap may cause binding in the cam.If it doesn't have the correct clearance,it can seize.Thus the reason to plasitgauge each bearing seat or the very least set the cam by itself and check it.The rockers also contact the cam and valve.Ive seen wear marks that lead to excessive tapper noise even tho they have been set correct.
All in all,you should be OK.I do recommend that you see if there's any binding of the cam tho.Thats what will take time.
Tolerances are very tight.I really recommend pulling the rockers,setting the cam block,pull the timing belt and hand turning the cam.It should be smooth and free.You can even check the original to get a idea what to look for.
Just a precaution...Should even one bearing seize to the cam,very bad things will happen.
Now...Do you need to replace the whole block or just the rockers???
If you can keep the block(with the bearings for the cam)..just gut the rods and replace the rockers and springs..set them and go.

Old Fogey
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby Old Fogey » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:57 pm

The rocker carrier and the head are machined as one unit, so should be kept together. Nothing to stop the rockers and shafts being swapped over; it's easy.
Check out these two Tech Tips
http://www.wingovations.com/cams-and-rockers/4579471096
http://www.wingovations.com/rocker-spin ... 4579471094
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robertdawber
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:09 pm

Old Fogey wrote:The rocker carrier and the head are machined as one unit, so should be kept together. Nothing to stop the rockers and shafts being swapped over; it's easy.
Check out these two Tech Tips
http://www.wingovations.com/cams-and-rockers/4579471096
http://www.wingovations.com/rocker-spin ... 4579471094

What if I swap out the rockers and keep the original shaft but replace the carrier?

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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby Old Fogey » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:21 pm

So it's the rocker carrier that is damaged, or at least, that you want to change.
Well Honda's excellent quality control means that you could do it and have no problems. But you might. The only way you will find out is to fit it and see if it binds on the cam.
Tighten the bolts down incrementally in a crosswise fashion. I have no explanation, but I have found that tightening a binding carrier in a different pattern will eliminate the binding.
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:40 pm

Old Fogey wrote:So it's the rocker carrier that is damaged, or at least, that you want to change.
Well Honda's excellent quality control means that you could do it and have no problems. But you might. The only way you will find out is to fit it and see if it binds on the cam.
Tighten the bolts down incrementally in a crosswise fashion. I have no explanation, but I have found that tightening a binding carrier in a different pattern will eliminate the binding.

Exactly. Te carrier is damaged where the lower tach bolt goes in. The bike has had a small oil leak for years. When I was working on it over the winter I could not find it. two days ago I took the fuel pump off and the hole was toast. I tried JB weld-I knew it was a long shot so now I need to change this out.

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virgilmobile
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:53 pm

Wouldn't a much easier thing be done?
Drill,tap,helicoil it back to OEM.Leave the thing there and fix the hole.
Is this possible.?

robertdawber
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:42 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Wouldn't a much easier thing be done?
Drill,tap,helicoil it back to OEM.Leave the thing there and fix the hole.
Is this possible.?

It would:)
But if you can picture the hole, the bottom broke off in such a way that the valve cover was holding the broken part in place. Still, I did try a helicoil but it failed as it didn't have enough to grab on to. Then I tried using JB weld to drill out a new hole-that too failed immediately.
This evening I was wondering if a machine shp could repair it. The problem is it is right where the valve cover meets it.

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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby RBGERSON » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:00 am

Why not just get a whole new head..they are on eBay all the time. Hell I might even have one..I'd have to check 83? right? but 80 to 83 all the same I think for heads...
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

robertdawber
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:15 am

RBGERSON wrote:Why not just get a whole new head..they are on eBay all the time. Hell I might even have one..I'd have to check 83? right? but 80 to 83 all the same I think for heads...

I placed a bid on one on ebay. It doesn't have the cam shaft though

f1xrupr
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby f1xrupr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:40 pm

Cam bearings are way more forgiving than main or rod bearings. You should see a machinists go after a plain cam bearing with a bearing knife (a bearing knife kinda looks like a butter spreader or something). I had bearings pressed in a V-8 block one time-he took the cam-wiggled it in the new bearings, and scraped out the marks it made, to make the cam fit better...I freaked out. Come to find out, that's what they do on cam bearings (the old schoolers anyway).
It is a good idea to check for binding as mentioned above-but you will be ok.
I would tell you what I done to a cam once, but the guys would holler at me...YOU CAN'T DO THAT!
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby f1xrupr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:50 pm

Cam bearings are way more forgiving than main or rod bearings. You should see a machinists go after a plain cam bearing with a bearing knife (a bearing knife kinda looks like a butter spreader or something). I had bearings pressed in a V-8 block one time-he took the cam-wiggled it in the new bearings, and scraped out the marks it made, to make the cam fit better...I freaked out. Come to find out, that's what they do on cam bearings (the old schoolers anyway).
It is a good idea to check for binding as mentioned above-but you should be ok.
I would tell you what I done to a cam once, but the guys would holler at me...YOU CAN'T DO THAT!
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

robertdawber
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:14 pm

What if I use my old rockers and Cam and only use the base of the new/used holder?

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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby f1xrupr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:57 pm

Put it together without belt or spring tension, and see if it turns smooth. Then, take it back apart, and use brake cleaner to remove all oil from bearing and journal, put it back together and see if you can shake it (not end play, but bearing play) I don't think plasti-gauge will help much, because of linebore and cam not being true....just see if it rattles. Keep in mind you are working on a 30+ year old engine with almost no new parts available, and if you expect spec numbers, you may end up with a parts bike.....start and run good...that's what you're looking for.
If it rattles, there is a "outside of the box" approach. Often times it's better to make use of what you already have rather than to purchase more "misfits". That is a rugged engine with a great oil pump, and will perform well if you just get it back together....gotta go...pizza's here!
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

robertdawber
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby robertdawber » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:06 pm

What's the outside the box approach? What kind of pizza :D

f1xrupr
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Re: destroy the head and camshaft?

Postby f1xrupr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:26 pm

As far as the pizza-my wife is a cook-grids her own flour-makes her own crust-vegies from our garden ...food stuff (that might be off topic)
As far as the "outside of the box" thing, best wait and see if the cam fits before I get into that... :roll:


My exercise bike is a goldwing.


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