GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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bobbybiscuit
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GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:09 pm



I have just replaced the rear brake caliper seals and still find that after using the rear brake a while the back brake slowly seizes on until it fully locks. If I ram down the rear brake pedal hard a few times I lose pressure totally the the brake fluid has forced it self pass the caliper seals.

I take it that this is a problem with the return master cylinder where the brake fluid is not returning to the reservoir and the extra pressure of the fluid in the brake system is forcing itself out through the rear brake caliper past the seals.

I had the master cylinder upgraded with new seals etc only 2 years ago by a mechanic and its a real pain the the bum with it reoccurring. can you advise what to do please so i can put an end to it one and for all. It prevents me going out on the bike. Even started to seize not using my rear brake.



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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby spiralout » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:46 am

bobbybiscuit wrote:I take it that this is a problem with the return master cylinder where the brake fluid is not returning to the reservoir and the extra pressure of the fluid in the brake system is forcing itself out through the rear brake caliper past the seals.

You answered your own question

Image

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:14 am

Thank you for link to image. I don't know how successful it is looking av wire in to return hole. It's been the bane of my life since having the bike . It's a pity I can't use another master cylinder that does not have the return valve/hole.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Is there another model of rear master cylinder i could fit to my GL1100a Aspencade 1982 - it has to be an improvement on what i have. :D

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:43 pm

Once that return port is cleared, the existing master cylinder will work quite well. Flush your brake fluid every other year, and it will never clog up again.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:30 pm

Thanks for reply.

I have seen a video on youtube by a bike mechanic who because of problems with honda return ports on old brake master cylinders where a replacement could not be found was to remove caliper body from bike and then almost remove the pistons from the body. He then used a G clamp to force the pistons back in (he had a piece of wood on the back of the body to protect it) forcing the brake fluid back up the return port. I must add that he remove the cap from the brake resevoir". On this bike he was working on it had the desired effect. He did also mention that he has had instances that the "muck and crud" shot out of the brake reservoir due to the pressure. He then cleaned out the reservoir , refilled and bed the brakes and assembled.

Has anyone else done this?

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby spiralout » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:35 pm

There have been posts here and at NGW about making a bracket to use a different rear master on the 1100 if you want to go that way. Seems a lot easier to me just to clear that hole (I used a guitar string) than trying to rig a way to force the piston into the cyl using a clamp. Wouldn't that just pump the fluid out the brake line like it's suppose to, anyway?

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:23 am

The idea being that by forcing the brake fluid back through the brake master cylinder it clears the blocked hole. Saves removing it and taking it to pieces. Was just intrigued whether anyone else had done it and what success they had.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby spiralout » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 am

bobbybiscuit wrote:The idea being that by forcing the brake fluid back through the brake master cylinder it clears the blocked hole. Saves removing it and taking it to pieces. Was just intrigued whether anyone else had done it and what success they had.

Gotcha. I misread that as the piston in the master, not caliper. But nah, never heard of that. It'd not be any more difficult to unbolt the master and clean the port thoroughly than to remove the caliper and try that half a**sed way, in my opinion. As stopped up as mine was, it took a lot of chipping at it with the wire to break through. No way fluid under pressure would have done it.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:31 am

Perhaps I am misunderstanding as well
do you have to take apart the brake master cylinder to access the return hole?

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby spiralout » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:43 am

Not at all. There's a plastic flange screwed to the top of the master, it's where the reservoir hose attaches. It's underneath that.
http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=57

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:32 am

That's good news. Thank you for pointing that out to me. As it so happens that the caliper body had to be removed as the bleed nipple is seized and no end of heating it and also using mole grips will not shift it. So will get local garage to remove it and possibly if needed re thread or use helicoil.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:48 am

Well more bad news - I changed the seals in the calipers and went to bleed brakes to make sure that side of things were working and guess what the bleed nipple is seized. No matter what I tried would not move. Took to the bike garage despite heating it up - would not budge. Thought it was a simple case cut and drill out and then rethread. Apparently not that simple and he was reluctant to do that seeing that caliper was a rare part. So an alternative is the banjo fitting with a built in bleed nipple. So going for that as last chance.

taken off master cylinder as per instructions off here. (very helpful thank you) to clean return port. It just looks like a piece of metal of the internal gubbins. Did not have a piece of metal so used a ladies hairgrip. I cant tell if its clear and is working without putting reassembling can I.

How thin is thin to get wire inside to clear return port? How do I know when it is clear without reassembling. This is my first effort of doing this so I dont want to mess things up. Can I do any damage by poking around the return port?

Hope to hear from you folks soon.

Thanks

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:13 am

i attach a pic of my master cylinder
Attachments

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:18 am

I used a piece cut from a wire brush. A piece of guitar string also works well:

Image

Image

As for the bleed nipple - try using a torch to heat the caliper around the nipple, and using electronic freeze spray (special aerosol spray that freezes whatever it is sprayed on, for testing purposes) on the nipple itself. The temperature difference between the two will cause the nipple to contract while the caliper around it expands, and can free it up enough to get it out.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:20 am

I took it to the mechanic to have a look at. Its ages since he has seen pne like mine. He used a piece of wire from a wire brush and also blew out the hole but he adnits he cant see where if anywhere the direction of the return port when wiring out the hole. It looks to me there is just a indentation rather than lower level hole. The main hole in the centre is clear.

But i still would like to know how can you tell if the return port hole is clear?

Going to get a new piece of piping from the master cylinder to the reservoir as existing one is a bit soft.

Re the bleed nipple. the mechanic says its a common problem and he uses the banjo bleed nipple with great success and that if i fill caliper first with brake fluid this will help eliminate air bubbles.

Look forward to hearing from you. :-)

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby spiralout » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:34 am

bobbybiscuit wrote:I took it to the mechanic to have a look at. Its ages since he has seen pne like mine. He used a piece of wire from a wire brush and also blew out the hole but he adnits he cant see where if anywhere the direction of the return port when wiring out the hole. It looks to me there is just a indentation rather than lower level hole. The main hole in the centre is clear.

But i still would like to know how can you tell if the return port hole is clear?

You can shine a flashlight in the return hole and look down the bore for light if it was disassembled. If it was me, since it's already off, I'd pull the piston and seals out for a cleaning anyway. It's probably all reusable if it was just rebuilt a couple of years ago. But, ya, it does just look like an indentation, especially if that tiny hole is still blocked.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby Mh434 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:22 pm

Just as an aside - I had an '81 Interstate with this same problem. Several mechanics and I worked on it, and the problem continued. In the end, I found the issue - it wasn't the M/C...it was too much caliper grease on the slider bolts!

As the slider bolt holes are blind, with too much grease in there an airtight seal is formed, and the air behind the slider bolts can't escape. As the caliper heats up in use, that air expands, and pushes one of the pads against the rotor. This, in turn, creates more heat, more expansion, more pad grip, etc., until it locks up. In my case, I figured it out by riding the bike (from cold) without ever touching the rear brake pedal. It still locked up after a few minutes of riding so, clearly, it wasn't a matter of fluid return being compromised. Once I removed the slider bolts & cleaned out the pockets, all was back to normal.

Just a thought, in case all else fails...

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:05 pm

very interesting - excuse my ignorance - where are the slider bolts on the caliper? You might well call it something to what I call it in the UK.

Some extra info please :D

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby Mh434 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:15 pm

As the calipers are single (rather than dual, opposed) piston, the calliper slides back and forth on its mounting ("slider") bolts to return to the rest position when the brake is released. If air pressure pushes back on the caliper, one of the pads is constantly pushing on the rotor. This causes heat in the caliper, further expanding the air in the pocket the pins go into, forcing it to exert even more pressure on the pad. Lockup is inevitable, and only letting it cool (or removing the slider bolts) will release the brake.

When it happened to me, it was my fault. If a film of grease on the pins (bolts) is good, the lots is better, right? It took two mechanics & me a full week to figure it out (mind you, nothing simple ever goes wrong for me - the weirder it is, the more likely it is to happen...

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:01 am

It's reassemble time tomorrow subject to the weather. It just won't stop raining. It's a nightmare to get anything done at the moment. I am not blessed with a garage. Thank you for your useful information. It's been very useful. I will let you know when I have got it all back together.

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby DaveDanger » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:15 pm

I ran through all this same problem and posted my travails and the final solution. Take the time to read through my post on this issue, viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13107. There's a variety of photos ultimately showing that tiny orifice that no one seems able to find until most of their hair has been pulled out.
I honestly chased my tail for the better part of 3 weeks before I got it handled. The suggestions and pics from other members here were invaluable.
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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:33 am

Its nearly 12 months since I have tackled my goldwing. Lost total heart but kept brake parts in the house. Have order new bolts for the brake caliper and new rubber external seals. In addition purchased a new clip that stops the rattle and holds the pads in place.

So I am back to the cleaning out the hole for the return valve. Still cant find the hidden hole for the return hole for the brake fluid. I have been looking for ages for a working rear brake master cylinder. No luck. is there a way of drilling a hole through the return master cylinder. Next door neighbour offered me £300 for the bike (about $400 dollars) but i do want to ride my goldwing again. Still got it insured. Read all the posts on here but despite the wire from a wire brush that keeps bending i when I poke it in the return valve I just dont know what to do. Is there a solution I could put in there so soften crud up? I mean really soft up the crud so I can reopen the hole.

Pic attached of latest attempt to clear return hole.


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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby bobbybiscuit » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:53 am

I am trying my hardest to find this tiny hole thats the cause of my problems. I take it is on the side as opposed a downward hole like the other hole. is there any benefit in enlarging the downward facing hole (as shown in the image) to gain access to the pin prick hole. I am dumbfounded/baffled and losing patience and heart again. Any advice please? Or is there anyone on here who is willing to undertake this challenge for me please? Postage paid both directions and an amount for your time. Just need to get bike back on the road.

What is the web site which I think is based in canada which sells parts for vintage bikes. Thanks

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Re: GL1100a 1982 aspencade Rear brake keeps seizing

Postby RBGERSON » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:17 am

I could be wrong but you are looking in the wrong place the sponge hole is in the base of the cup that holds the brake fluid..Yes there is a bigger hole and just next to it is the tiny hole..I'll look for pic and post it here if I find one..Ok the first if of a rear master but hard to see where the hole is; the second is a front master and a good shot same kind of hole is in the rear master.







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