help! 2 dead cyl's


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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T-Rat
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:37 am
Location: knoxville tn
Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100a & 2000 Sportster 1200

help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:47 pm



I have an 83 GL1100 that I am bringing back from the dead. Hasn't run in about 7 to 10 years. I have it running but both cylinders on the right side #3 and #1 are not firing. This is what I have done up to now: new timing belts, adjusted the valves new rad hoses, replaced the rusty gas tank with a clean one and replaced fuel filter, rebuilt the carbs using Roady's DIY and also Howard's book, I did not use Randakk's kit but have since gone back thru the carbs twice more and bought seals from Randakk, The last time I built the carbs I dipped them in a carb cleaner bucket over night for all four one at a time. I have verified that the timing is correct, I have 155 Lbs compression. I have changed the spark plugs and then swapped the ones that were not firing with the ones that were. When I pull the plugwire's one at a time I can hear spark jumping on all four cylinders. I did replace the carb body on #4 cylinder with an early one with a press in idle jet. That cylinder is fine. I swapped plugwires from the good cylinders to the bad and it made no difference. I have rechecked the valve adjustment on those two cylinders and they are correct. I can find no vacuum leaks. There is fuel in both float bowls.I have synchronized the carbs using a Carb Pro 2 they are close. No smoke from the right or left side pipe and no bubbles in the rad so head gaskets should be good. I don't know what else I have missed.... I am thinking that the problem is still in the carbs and I am about to give up and go to a single carb setup although I really don't want to.....I would like to keep the bike as original as possible, not that I am trying to do a restoration but just would like to be a nice daily rider. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am stumped!



4wred
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby 4wred » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:11 pm

Try taking the air filter out,fill up a spray bottle with gas and spray gas down in the right side of the plenum(cyl.1&3) or some carb spray.Do the cylinders wake up? If so maybe still clogged circuits in those carbs.I had a similar problem and just didn't have the carbs clean enough.With the engine running grab the intake runners on that side,they're probably cold to the touch,mine would almost ice up and sweat they were so cold.Are the plugs on that side dry if you check them after a short run? I'm sure some others will chime in,good luck.

T-Rat
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100a & 2000 Sportster 1200

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:38 pm

I have sprayed carb cleaner and it doesn't seem to do anything. The intake runners are warm. I used a inferred thermometer on the exhaust pipes and they are 150 degrees cooler than the left sides. The plugs are wet like either flooded or just not firing Before I put the carbs back together I sprayed carb cleaner thru all the ports as per Roaddy's DIY and all were clear. Thats not saying that something didn't get in there when I started it up this afternoon. I got the carb pack back together last weekend then installed it back on the bike today and started it for the first time.

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:04 pm

Check your spark if your plus are wet it could be low voltage, or none. let us know what ya find. Regards, Johnny

T-Rat
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:12 pm

I am going to run a test on the coils next I think but I can hear what sounds like a good hot spark when I hold the wire just a little away from the plug. I did check the ohm reading on the end caps and they were all right at 5k ohms as they should be. I also replaced the resistor plugs with non resistor of the same heat range. If the coils check good I will replace the plug wires which I had planed to do just as prevented maintenance anyway.

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maintainer
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Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1977 GL 1000
1982 GL 1100 Interstate (Sold)

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby maintainer » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:10 pm

I had this same issue on an 1000, 1 & 3 cylinders had a bad coil with an open winding.

Easy visual test:

Jam a screwdriver up inside plug wires socket to 1 & 3 and ground it against the valve cover. Spin the engine over and you should see a spark jump from the screwdriver shaft to ground (the valve cover).
1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
1977 GL 1000 Standard (naked can be good, who knew?)

T-Rat
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:55 pm

I haven't seen the spark but when I pull the plug wire from the plug and hold it just off of the plug I can hear a spark jump so I know it is firing but I don't know how strong the spark is. are one and three on the same coil? I haven't looked but looking at the wiring diagram I believe they are.

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maintainer
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Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1977 GL 1000
1982 GL 1100 Interstate (Sold)

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby maintainer » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:04 pm

T-Rat wrote:I haven't seen the spark but when I pull the plug wire from the plug and hold it just off of the plug I can hear a spark jump so I know it is firing but I don't know how strong the spark is. are one and three on the same coil? I haven't looked but looking at the wiring diagram I believe they are.


Yes 1 and 3 fire together
and 2 and 4 fire together
1 coil for each pair of cylinders
1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
1977 GL 1000 Standard (naked can be good, who knew?)

indianakid
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Location: long beach, ca
Motorcycle: 83 GL1100 I

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby indianakid » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:31 pm

"Yes 1 and 3 fire together
and 2 and 4 fire together
1 coil for each pair of cylinders"

THAT IS INCORRECT !!!

1 and 2 fire together (front cylinders)
and 3 and 4 fire together (back cylinders)
1 coil for each pair of cylinders

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maintainer
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Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1977 GL 1000
1982 GL 1100 Interstate (Sold)

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby maintainer » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:11 pm

indianakid wrote:"Yes 1 and 3 fire together
and 2 and 4 fire together
1 coil for each pair of cylinders"

THAT IS INCORRECT !!!

1 and 2 fire together (front cylinders)
and 3 and 4 fire together (back cylinders)
1 coil for each pair of cylinders


He's right,
Got my cylinder numbers all crossed up.
The front two cylinders fire together off one coil and the rear two cylinders fire together off the other coil.
1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
1977 GL 1000 Standard (naked can be good, who knew?)

T-Rat
Posts: 62
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Location: knoxville tn
Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100a & 2000 Sportster 1200

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:51 am

maintainer wrote:
indianakid wrote:"Yes 1 and 3 fire together
and 2 and 4 fire together
1 coil for each pair of cylinders"

THAT IS INCORRECT !!!

1 and 2 fire together (front cylinders)
and 3 and 4 fire together (back cylinders)
1 coil for each pair of cylinders


He's right,
Got my cylinder numbers all crossed up.
The front two cylinders fire together off one coil and the rear two cylinders fire together off the other coil.
I looked and that is the way my plug wires are wired . so if 2 and 4 are firing then that should eliminate coil problems but not plug wire problems

T-Rat
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:37 am
Location: knoxville tn
Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100a & 2000 Sportster 1200

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:22 am

T-Rat wrote:
maintainer wrote:
indianakid wrote:"Yes 1 and 3 fire together
and 2 and 4 fire together
1 coil for each pair of cylinders"

THAT IS INCORRECT !!!

1 and 2 fire together (front cylinders)
and 3 and 4 fire together (back cylinders)
1 coil for each pair of cylinders


He's right,
Got my cylinder numbers all crossed up.
The front two cylinders fire together off one coil and the rear two cylinders fire together off the other coil.
I looked and that is the way my plug wires are wired . so if 2 and 4 are firing then that should eliminate coil problems but not plug wire problems


Does anyone know of a way to static time the GL1100? On randakk's blog I see a way to do this on a GL1000 but not a 1100 he also says that his static timing light will not work on 1100's If I can do this I can tell if I have a pulse gen problem (pin missing or broken) with out pulling the swing arm back off to get into the pulse Gen.

T-Rat
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Location: knoxville tn
Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100a & 2000 Sportster 1200

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:15 am

Was thinking about the timing.....if the pulse Gen was bad it should affect 2 cyl from the same coil......this being cyl1 and 3 those are from 2 different Coils. Coil on left fires #3 and #4 cyl, coil on right fires #1 and #2 Am I thinking correctly?

4wred
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby 4wred » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:52 am

Take out spark plugs 1&3 connect the plug wires back on the plugs and ground them to the head.Turn engine over, that way you can see the spark to get a idea how strong the spark is.

T-Rat
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:26 am

4wred wrote:Take out spark plugs 1&3 connect the plug wires back on the plugs and ground them to the head.Turn engine over, that way you can see the spark to get a idea how strong the spark is.


comparing the spark this way.....visually it looks the same on 1 & 3 as it does on 2 & 4..........wish I had a way to actually measure the spark voltage.

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maintainer
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Motorcycle: 1977 GL 1000
1982 GL 1100 Interstate (Sold)

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby maintainer » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:19 am

If you have good spark on all 4 cylinders and it is timed properly then your problem is with the carbs.
1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
1977 GL 1000 Standard (naked can be good, who knew?)

4wred
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82 aspy turned naked (sold)
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby 4wred » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:38 am

maintainer wrote:If you have good spark on all 4 cylinders and it is timed properly then your problem is with the carbs.

^I agree 100% :D

Float valves not sealing properly? Had this problem,will flood the cylinders while running.Try gently tapping on those carbs with a dowel or something similar,I tap on the joint between the body and bowl area while it's running and listen to see if the cylinders wake up.It might take a few seconds or a minute after tapping.You said you opened up the drain screws to verify gas getting to the carbs? That doesn't prove the float valves are sealing properly causing the wet plugs.These carbs can be a real pita to get working properly,once I got mine rite the bike ran like a raped ape!

T-Rat
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:12 pm

4wred wrote:
maintainer wrote:If you have good spark on all 4 cylinders and it is timed properly then your problem is with the carbs.

^I agree 100% :D

Float valves not sealing properly? Had this problem,will flood the cylinders while running.Try gently tapping on those carbs with a dowel or something similar,I tap on the joint between the body and bowl area while it's running and listen to see if the cylinders wake up.It might take a few seconds or a minute after tapping.You said you opened up the drain screws to verify gas getting to the carbs? That doesn't prove the float valves are sealing properly causing the wet plugs.These carbs can be a real pita to get working properly,once I got mine rite the bike ran like a raped ape!


Will be getting back on this tomorrow......have gotten a lot of good suggestions, some I have already tried some I haven't. I think I have eliminated everything ignition wise, tomorrow I am concentrating on the carbs. I really don't want to put a single carb conversion on this bike so I am going to make every effort to get these carbs working right!

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velvetrider
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 Interstate

Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby velvetrider » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:46 am

You have gotten a lot of input here,, I am no expert, by a long shot. I just finished upper end rebuild. The carbs were really dirty. The only carb problem I had before the rebuild was the floats on 2 & 4 where out of adjustment. #4 would actually hydro lock the cyl. It measured 17mm. It is supposed to be 15.5mm (not 15, not 16) This is VERY specific measurement. 'Just saying' Good luck

T-Rat
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:08 am

velvetrider wrote:You have gotten a lot of input here,, I am no expert, by a long shot. I just finished upper end rebuild. The carbs were really dirty. The only carb problem I had before the rebuild was the floats on 2 & 4 where out of adjustment. #4 would actually hydro lock the cyl. It measured 17mm. It is supposed to be 15.5mm (not 15, not 16) This is VERY specific measurement. 'Just saying' Good luck


I was very careful to set the floats at 15.5 mm using a vernier caliper.... now thats not to say I couldn't have screwed up the measurement. I used a conversion table to convert to inches and came up with .610 and that is the measurement I used. That being said I have ordered a float gauge for GL1100 from Randackk's and I am going to recheck my settings as soon as it comes.

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:08 pm

Make sure the measurement is consistent from heel to toe. You have to be exact, "close enough" will not work. Ask me how I know :roll: .
Also be sure the floats are not bent in any way. All 4 of mine were bent ever so slightly, and it will make a difference.
Getting it right can be a bit aggravating! Regards, Johnny

T-Rat
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:47 pm

Johnyy Smoke wrote:Make sure the measurement is consistent from heel to toe. You have to be exact, "close enough" will not work. Ask me how I know :roll: .
Also be sure the floats are not bent in any way. All 4 of mine were bent ever so slightly, and it will make a difference.
Getting it right can be a bit aggravating! Regards, Johnny
Rechecked the float levels with the float gauge and they were spot on. Got back into the carbs and found the two idle jets on 3 and 1 to be stopped up. The small holes around the out side were clear but the hole through the jet from end to end was either stopped up or never drilled. I tried spraying brake cleaner through it and I also tried blowing through it with compressed air and neither one will clear up. Makes me think it was never drilled????? I am now in the process of replacing the new jets and needle and seats with the original ones as several people have pointed out that the aftermarket ones are suspect. I'm sure my problem was the idle jets. While I am in there this time I am going to chamfer the edges of the slide chamber and polish everything up so I won't have a chance of the slides sticking. I'll update when I get it running again probably next weekend.

T-Rat
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Re: help! 2 dead cyl's

Postby T-Rat » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:28 pm

T-Rat wrote:
Johnyy Smoke wrote:Make sure the measurement is consistent from heel to toe. You have to be exact, "close enough" will not work. Ask me how I know :roll: .
Also be sure the floats are not bent in any way. All 4 of mine were bent ever so slightly, and it will make a difference.
Getting it right can be a bit aggravating! Regards, Johnny
Rechecked the float levels with the float gauge and they were spot on. Got back into the carbs and found the two idle jets on 3 and 1 to be stopped up. The small holes around the out side were clear but the hole through the jet from end to end was either stopped up or never drilled. I tried spraying brake cleaner through it and I also tried blowing through it with compressed air and neither one will clear up. Makes me think it was never drilled????? I am now in the process of replacing the new jets and needle and seats with the original ones as several people have pointed out that the aftermarket ones are suspect. I'm sure my problem was the idle jets. While I am in there this time I am going to chamfer the edges of the slide chamber and polish everything up so I won't have a chance of the slides sticking. I'll update when I get it running again probably next weekend.

Latest UPDATE:...........got it back together and running today. It now runs like it is supposed to....still can't get whatever is in the idle jets out of the ones that came in the kit. I put the old Idle and main jets back in after a good soaking in Chim Dip and it runs like it's supposed to. I also chamfered the edges of the slide chambers and polished everything up with #0000 steel wool. Got everything in the chambers looking almost like it's been chromed plated. All Cylinders firing, carbs balanced, and no hesitation off idle. Thanks to everyone who tried to help. The guys on here are the best....THANK YOU!




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