Front Master Cylinder help is needed...


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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TRIROK
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Snellville GA

Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby TRIROK » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:30 pm



I am helping a friend with his 83 GL1100 Standard. We have rebuilt all the calipers and both master cylinders (with easy-to-understand help from this great website!).

The problem I'm having is that I am not getting any fluid pushed out of the front master cylinder. I have taken everything apart, cleaned it diligently, and installed a new rebuild kit. There are two holes (one larger than the other) just below where the reservoir snaps in. The larger one obviously allows fluid to enter the cylinder. What is the function/purpose of the smaller one, which does not appear to actually go into the cylinder?

Any ideas as to why I am not pumping fluid into the brake line? Your help is appreciated.

Terry



lobabooby
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:01 am
Location: conneaut oh
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby lobabooby » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:05 am

It could be a collapsed brake line. not allowing brake fluid to reach the caliper.. which will have to be replaced. sounds like that is your trouble. a collapsed brake line is not visible, it is internal.. If the bike has sat for a number of years i would cosider replacing all the brake lines. Word of advice.. Find someone who can make up new brake hose for you.. dealers charge way to much. and honda has discontiued these banjo type brake lines . Now, about that smaller hole in the master cylinder. that is a relief hole. it's function is to allow brake fluid to return to the resevoir. it's very small and does get plugged up with crap. this condition will lock your right front caliper against the rotor!.. (in your case it's the matter of getting fluid the left front caliper.) Same for the rear. (very common) Make sure you get the smaller hole you mentioned completly cleaned out. you will need very fine wire to get to it. the material it's made of is soft, so take it easy!.. Sitting around to long with old brake fluid in the cylinder is the culprit. What color was the fluid before you started? if it was dark in color that would tell me to look a little further at the overall condition of the brake system. Old fluid and time. cause a lot of trouble.. In the future, i would change the brake fluid every year. more often if you notice the fluid's color is very dark. The rear Master cylinder's on these 1100's are notorious for having the relief holes completly plugged with crap. i have an 1100. and have been through this myself. Oh, yea, pick up a spare rear master cylinder. (wrecked bike) as these are getting harder to find. And find a place that will make up those banjo end brake lines for you ! i was charged $52.00 for one hose by a dealer who had a third party making them up for the dealer. Pretty good scam huh?.. My advice? rebuild the entire brake system "if" the bike has not been ridden in a number of years. if you need a replacement master cylinder check out "Parts'n more" on the web. decent priceing and $5.00 flat rate shipping. $35.00 rebuild kits too. Lobabooby@yahoo.com

TRIROK
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Snellville GA

Re: Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby TRIROK » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:25 am

Thanks, Lobabooby, for your detailed and informative reply!

How does the smaller hole actually provide relief? I believe I have cleaned it thoroughly, all the way down to using a sewing needle (and, yes, the brake fluid was a nasty reddish-brown color when we started!), but still can't see where it goes. It does not, as I mentioned before, appear to go through to the cylinder wall.

If I have the master cylinder off of the bike and put fluid in the reservoir, shouldn't I get fluid spurting out the open end where the brake line would be attached as I pump the handle?

Thanks, again, for your help! It is greatly appreciated...

Terry

lobabooby
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:01 am
Location: conneaut oh
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby lobabooby » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:09 pm

Terry, like i said. the small relief hole provides pressure relief after the brake lever is released, allowing some fluid to be able to return to the resevoir.. if that did not happen after letting go of the front brake lever. The caliper and brake pad will stay locked against the rotor and your going nowhere then! the relief hole has a diameter of 0,25!.. And a sewing neddle is not going to get in there where all the crap is. just opening or unplugging of the very end of this hole is not enough. such a tiny hole should tell you why it plugs up. And why you should keep the fluid clear, and not allow it to become discolored.. that small hole goes places you cant imagine!.. it simply works as a bypass once the brakes are released so your brakes dont stay locked. (Bypasses the cylinder piston)... And your NOT going to get any fluid to pass through a brakeline hose that has a collapsed interior hose wall. you wont be seeing any spurting fluid. (down at the caliper) And it sound as if you have more cleaning to do on that master cylinder. try using an "E' string off a guitar....... and get it down deep in the smaller hole. Use brake cleaner and blow it out with air!.. I would follow that with a overnite soak in Seafoam. Your bike has a "Linked" braking systen. where once the rear brake lever is depressed, braking action occurs at the rear wheel and the right front at the same time. this is controlled by the "REAR" mastercylinder. the front brake lever applies the left front brake only. Since you are having problems with the front. It would be wise to rebuild the rear master cyliner as well. since it's the one that creates the most trouble by locking up the rear brake. again mostly because of a blocked releif hole. it happend to mine twice!..Another bit of advice: do not use anything abrasive against the master cylinder walls! you dont want to scratch them up.I can almost guarntee you that the rear master cylinder is going to give you problems. just by your description of the condition of the front cylinder and the color of the fluid you found in the front. It sure is nice to "GO"! but you need to "Whoa"! when its time. How long did the bike sit, not being ridden? Lobabooby@yahoo.com

TRIROK
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Snellville GA

Re: Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby TRIROK » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:36 pm

It is my understanding that my friend has not ridden the bike in at least three years, which is why I decided early on that rebuilding everything was in order.

I have, in fact, already rebuilt all the calipers and the rear master cylinder. The "linked" system seems to now be working fine. It's only the front master cylinder that's the problem. The "e" string is a great idea that I hadn't thought of, and yes, I do have guitar strings around, so I'll go clip a piece and put it to work.

I have used high-pressure air and brake cleaner, which worked on the rear but not altogether on the front, as is apparent. I will work on it again and report back as soon as possible. Thanks for your able assistance with this, and let's hope in my next post I can report that the problem has been solved!

Kindest Regards,

Terry

lobabooby
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:01 am
Location: conneaut oh
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby lobabooby » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:37 am

while you have everything apart. Get a can of "Seafoam".. Soak all the parts overnite. Seafoam is the "ONLY" product that will not eat up parts made of rubber. unlike other products that are caustic. and turn rubber parts to mush! Seafoam also is an excellent fuel stabilizer. Since the bike has not been run in three years. i would put around 1/2 a can to a full tank of fuel take it out on the big road (4-lane) and ride it like i stole it for about 50 miles..@ around 70MPH. you should notice a big improvement in the way it runs... And after three years i would seriously consider having the carbs serviced. After another cleaning of the master cylinder and you still have not made progress it may be needing another master cylinder. What about the brake hose's ? are any of those replaced?.. lobabooby@yahoo.com

TRIROK
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Snellville GA

Re: Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby TRIROK » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:18 am

I do regularly use Seafoam as a gasoline additive on my own bikes (an '83 Yamaha Venture and an '04 Silverado), but had not thought about using it as a cleaning agent until reading your previous post. I have, in fact, soaked the front master cylinder overnight in it and will soon see if I am able to make any progress with the fluids. The hoses seem to be OK (I did pump fluid out of the line after I had removed it from the caliper before the rebuild).

Once the brakes work, I will certainly put Seafoam in the tank and run it out real good.

Thanks for all of your very helpful comments. I will update you soon on my progress!

Terry

lobabooby
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:01 am
Location: conneaut oh
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: Front Master Cylinder help is needed...

Postby lobabooby » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:20 am

terry, when you get done being aggravated over all this trouble your having. Go check out "SPEEDBLEEDERS.COM".... i think you may be suprised what you find there. if you have not already?.. "lobabooby@yahoo.com"




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