Sprag clutch


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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newgoldwingrider
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Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:39 am



Hello a wile back I posted a question about my bike not starting and was determined that it was the sprag clutch and that I needed to run it with sea foam and that wld fix it and that the chance of the sprag clutch actually being bad was slim to none well I did it and the starter spins like crazy very free and oil wasn't that bad wen I drained it. Still won't start so do I need to just go ahead and pull the motor or could it be somthing else please help me.



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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:39 am

Does the starter EVER catch and crank the engine? Or does it just spin freely and never crank the engine at all?

newgoldwingrider
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:28 pm

Wen I got it it started and wld occasionally just spin then it started to just spin all the time and won't catch at all I did the Seafoam thing in the oil and the oil came out dirty but no sludge came out. Am I most likely looking at pulling the motor? And thank you for answering back so quickly I really appreciate any help you can give me

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RBGERSON
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby RBGERSON » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:11 pm

Pulling the engine and clearing out or replacing the springs and rollers is the best way. But..using the sea foam or MMO works sometimes another is to drill a hole in the right spot and squirt cleaner right into he rollers and springs.





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HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
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newgoldwingrider
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:44 pm

If I try drilling it what do I do about the whole afterwards and does drilling the hole work often

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RBGERSON
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby RBGERSON » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:40 pm

if it's a gummed up spring/roller the spraying directly in works if it's bad rollers or springs ..then no..you can add a port see the pic with a cap or just tap and install a very short bolt or seal with JB Weld.

HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

newgoldwingrider
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:56 pm

Can I ask the question how likely is it that it's bad rollers and springs I hear it unlikely and that most likely it's gummed up

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby Mh434 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:05 pm

I just repaired a friend's sprag clutch (not a 'Wing, though) - one of the little springs had collapsed, so it wouldn't push the roller properly. Starter just spun, all the time, when trying to start it. On his (small engine) I replaced his springs with ones out of a multi-color ballpoint pen, and it works like brand new now.

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby RBGERSON » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:32 pm

Not likely but possible..the rollers can get flat spots and the springs to do lose it..
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
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newgoldwingrider
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:36 pm

Well I think I'm going to try drilling it be for I pull the motor thank u all for ur help

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WA9FWT
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby WA9FWT » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:51 pm

newgoldwingrider wrote:Well I think I'm going to try drilling it be for I pull the motor thank u all for ur help


Not sure I got the whole picture here on whats taking place.
Did you elimanate the starter it's self ? Other words did you remove the starter, and check it over.

I have had starting problems like what was mentioned. Removed starter , rebuild and good to go again.

WA9FWT Phil

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:58 pm

Yes starter was rebuilt, the starter is turning and turning well at that but the sprag clutch isn't engaging so I put sea foam in the oil and ran it for a wile drained it and still it just spins never engaging so I'm afraid that it's actually bad and I'm gonna have to pull the motor, but I'm going to try drilling it and spraying cleaner directly on the sprag clutch and pray that works

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:39 am

newgoldwingrider wrote:Yes starter was rebuilt, the starter is turning and turning well at that but the sprag clutch isn't engaging so I put sea foam in the oil and ran it for a wile drained it and still it just spins never engaging so I'm afraid that it's actually bad and I'm gonna have to pull the motor, but I'm going to try drilling it and spraying cleaner directly on the sprag clutch and pray that works


I would also check the starter as well - some starters can develop problems with the helical gearbox on the end - under no load they appear to work fine, spinning the output shaft, but when asked to crank the engine, they slip and while the starter motor spins, the output shaft does not.

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby Old Fogey » Mon May 02, 2016 9:24 am

If you're going to drill it and/or tap the hole, be very, very, carefull not to get swarf falling into the engine, or you will have a much bigger problem than just the starter clutch when the bits get into the scavenge pump!!!!
Pull the engine and do the job right. You know it's the correct way.
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Mon May 02, 2016 3:51 pm

Yah u are right that's what I'll end up doing, I really dont want to screw it up more, iv haven't work on motor cycles much at all so I'm learning as I go and I'm not looking forward to pulling the motor is it difficult and another question do I have to remove the false tank and the real gas tank to pull the motor?

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby Old Fogey » Mon May 02, 2016 5:52 pm

More time consuming than difficult. You do not need to remove either tank.

Drain the coolant and remove the lower radiator hose. Actually, easier to remove the two bolts that hold the pump cover on and leave the hose on it.
Same with the top hose at the thermostat housing. Might as well put a new thermostat in there now too.
Drain the oil. Sump plug is on the front transmission cover.
Remove the air filter from inside the false tank.
Pull all the ignition leads off the plugs and tuck them up out of the way
Undo the eight manifold bolts, pull the fuel line off the pump (easier to get at than the carb end) and tie the carbs up out of the way. Be aware that fuel will run out. Make sure the tap is off!
Pull the rubber boot between the swing arm and engine back and remove the final drive shaft circlip from inside the universal joint. That is probably going to be the hardest part, as it's buried right down inside. You will need right-angled circlip pliers to get it.
Pull the joint backward off the engine.
Undo all the exhaust, drop it as one unit and pull it back as far as you can. Preferably get some help to tilt the bike enough to remove it from underneath.
Remove the starter power lead from the starter.
Undo the alternator plug (just behind the engine with three yellow wires)
Slacken off the clutch cable adjuster and remove the cable from the operating arm on the right side of the rear of the engine.
Take out the inside bolt of the tach drive housing and pull out the tach cable.
Take the lead off the oil pressure switch. That is the big thing sticking up half way along the top of the engine.
Find the connector on the neutral switch and disconnect it (you might have to take it off the switch itself. The switch is located in the block behind the lower right hand frame tube.
Remove the two leads at the thermostat housing (one is for the fan, the other for the temp gauge)
You will need a jack with a solid piece of board or steel plate under the engine.
Remove the four bolts holding the top front engine mounting bars, remove them and the carb shield. There is a small electrical harness clipped to the shield.
Remove the rear top engine bolt and the left side triangular mounting plate.
Remove the bottom front engine mounting bolt.
Remove the two rear engine mounting bolts. They come out towards the rear.
Undo the nuts holding the removable left hand subframe and footrest and remove it.
You should now be able to pull the engine out of the left side. It's possible that you will find it catching on the drive shaft. Most times you can get it by turning the drive shaft and pushing it backwards. There seems to be a point where it will go back, just a fraction but enough to help you.
OK that's the engine out.
You do not need to remove the round clutch cover.
You need to undo all the screws around the the larger rear cover and the nuts on the clutch cover. Not sure but I think there may be a couple of long clutch cover screws to be removed too.
Pull the rear cover off.
The alternator rotor has to be removed now. Early rotors have three large holes in their periphery that you can put a bar in to hold it while you undo the bolt. The later rotors do not, so you will have to use a strap wrench to hold it.
Some rotors will be tight on their splines and may require a big three legged puller to get it off.
In the rear of the rotor, you will find three rollers, guide pins and springs. Do yourself a favour and renew the lot! They are not expensive, even if you buy the Honda ones. But there are also good after market kits out there.
Now read this:
http://www.wingovations.com/slipping-st ... 4579471093
Do not worry about the roller bearing although I show how to get at it. That bearing is no longer available from Honda, but if yours feels rough there is a workaround.
Put a new starter chain in too. They do break occasionally and it seems silly not to do it while you are in there.
If you feel really brave (and why shouldn't you, you've done great so far!) have a look at this too while you are there:
http://www.wingovations.com/scavenge-pu ... 4579471109
You will see the pump sitting just to the left of the clutch.
You will need a
new rear case gasket 11394-371-306
3x 28126-516-020 guide
3x 28125-516-030 spring
3x 91101-516-000 rollers
maybe, 15229-371-000 scavenge pump gasket
Starter chain: 28101-371-003 These have been obsoleted by Honda but you can still find them if you hunt.

Jeez.......I could have pulled it out faster than typing all this lot up. I think I have everything covered but if not I apologise.
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newgoldwingrider
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Tue May 03, 2016 6:10 am

Wow thank u very much I will let u know how I make out, had some tragic things happen in the last few days so it may be a bit till I get to it now but I am very grateful for this thank u very much.

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Mon May 30, 2016 12:06 pm

I have a question there is a bolt right were the sprag clutch is older bikes had a plug there that u took out for a kick start what is the bolt for? If I took it out cld I manually turn the sprag clutch or wld somthing come loosee inside the motor?

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby Old Fogey » Mon May 30, 2016 12:47 pm

I don't know which bolt you mean, unless you mean the 17mm hex head alloy cap on the back of the alternator housing.
But regardless, no you can't turn the starter clutch with it.
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby mytown » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:46 am

WingAdmin wrote:
newgoldwingrider wrote:Yes starter was rebuilt, the starter is turning and turning well at that but the sprag clutch isn't engaging so I put sea foam in the oil and ran it for a wile drained it and still it just spins never engaging so I'm afraid that it's actually bad and I'm gonna have to pull the motor, but I'm going to try drilling it and spraying cleaner directly on the sprag clutch and pray that works


I would also check the starter as well - some starters can develop problems with the helical gearbox on the end - under no load they appear to work fine, spinning the output shaft, but when asked to crank the engine, they slip and while the starter motor spins, the output shaft does not.


I'd cover every possible base before dropping the engine. WingAdmin is referring to this part of the starter:
I'm not sure what can go wrong in this area of the starter. I may have read somewhere that
the splined center shaft can go bad (snapped?). Here's a link to the starter rebuild tutorial from this site. It has more pictures of this area of the starter: viewtopic.php?t=259

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby Rednaxs60 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:44 am

Have the engine out of my '85 LTD fo a different reason, but decided to do the starter clutch while the engine is out. I found the clutch to be quite clean and just replaced the 3 sets of springs, rollers and spring caps. Springs are interesting in that the spring will look just fine, but after 30 years or so, the original design properties are no longer there. As mentioned, the best thing to do with old springs is to replace them.

As an aside, any time you work on your bike and there is a spring involved in the process, source a new one and replace it. Springs are relatively inexpensive, and a new one can make a world of difference.

Cheers
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby Old Fogey » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:59 am

That's great advice!
There's not many springs in the engine; the ones mentioned, the gear change mechanism has four (one of which requires the crankcase to be split, so ALWAYS do that one if the engine is taken down), the pressure releaf spring in the oil pump, spacer springs on the rockers, timing belt tensioner springs that should be renewed regularly, the big one on the alternator shock absorber and one that could be ignored in the kickstart of the 75-77 GL1000.
Most are only a few dollars and can make all the difference.
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:33 pm

mytown wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:
newgoldwingrider wrote:Yes starter was rebuilt, the starter is turning and turning well at that but the sprag clutch isn't engaging so I put sea foam in the oil and ran it for a wile drained it and still it just spins never engaging so I'm afraid that it's actually bad and I'm gonna have to pull the motor, but I'm going to try drilling it and spraying cleaner directly on the sprag clutch and pray that works


I would also check the starter as well - some starters can develop problems with the helical gearbox on the end - under no load they appear to work fine, spinning the output shaft, but when asked to crank the engine, they slip and while the starter motor spins, the output shaft does not.


I'd cover every possible base before dropping the engine. WingAdmin is referring to this part of the starter:
GL1100 Starter helical gears.jpg
I'm not sure what can go wrong in this area of the starter. I may have read somewhere that
the splined center shaft can go bad (snapped?). Here's a link to the starter rebuild tutorial from this site. It has more pictures of this area of the starter: viewtopic.php?t=259


There have been instances of sheared/failed teeth in there. Particularly in some cheap aftermarket (eBay) starters that use PLASTIC gears in this gearbox.

newgoldwingrider
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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby newgoldwingrider » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:29 am

Another problem ok so I did the Seafoam and nothing so replaced the starter and works perfect starts wonderfully but the back brakes keep locking up what wld make it do that anyone have any thoughts

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Re: Sprag clutch

Postby Old Fogey » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:01 am

newgoldwingrider wrote:Another problem ok so I did the Seafoam and nothing so replaced the starter and works perfect starts wonderfully but the back brakes keep locking up what wld make it do that anyone have any thoughts


Assuming that the brake pedal is moving freely, the master cylinder needs cleaning out and probably a rebuild with new seals . I would guess the return hole is blocked.
It could also be that the pistons are sticking in the caliper.


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