GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take off


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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davekrovetz
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GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take off

Postby davekrovetz » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:18 pm



I bought a 1982 GL1100. It had been sitting (with treated gas in its tank) for about 9 months, maybe longer. 23k on the odometer. I put in fresh gas and oil and a new battery. It starts now with full choke, but even if warm does not want to idle. When I let out the clutch, there is a LOT of chatter and often a squeal (from the front end). When it is rolling this all disappears. I have only ridden it around a long block or two, unsure of what these noises are telling me and what to do next.



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MJSantos
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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby MJSantos » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:00 pm

Sounds like the carbs are fouled right off the bat. Another thing you might want to check right away is the timing belt tensioners and the condition of the belts and timing.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:02 pm

Thanks. Would pulling the plugs tell me about the carbs? Should I anticipate that the carbs ought to be pulled, sent off to be refurbished? Dave

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby MJSantos » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:12 pm

Reading the plugs would give you indications but the squeal has me thinking you have timing belt issues. I would go for that first along with the carbs. It one of those belts has slipped one notch the compression would be off on one side causing rich conditions (Black Plugs) but of it gets any worse you could bend valves or punch holes in the pistons. Don't chance it.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:26 pm

So would you suggest that:

1) I open up the front end and examine/replace the timing belts, tensioners, etc
2) Remove and have the carbs redone?
3) Examine plugs as at least an indicator of how each cylinder is firing
4) Don't start the bike until all of the above is completed?

Dave

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby MJSantos » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:25 pm

Just re ordered your list

1) I open up the front end and examine/replace the timing belts, tensioners, etc
Make sure the timing is dead on and the tensioners are free wheeling and quite.

2) Don't start the bike until all of the above is completed?

3) Examine plugs as at least an indicator of how each cylinder is firing
At least it will tell you if one or two cylinders might be causing a lot of the problems.

4) Remove and have the carbs redone?
If everything is good up to this point you could give Seafoam a try in the gas tank, might just clean the carbs up. The only drawback to this is Seafoam does a great job cleaning the tank and any rust in there or the filter will find it's way to the carbs. If the tank is questionable you can use a gas can as an alternate supply by getting a section of fuel line 1/4 inch and connecting it with fresh gas to the fuel pump inlet, the run seafoam that way.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:36 pm

Thank you - I will start that process tomorrow and see where it leads me. I will post a bit as I discover stuff both so you can see if your diagnoses was right and to ask inevitable further questions.

I bought this bike to have a project - looks like I got what I asked for!
Thank you again -
Dave

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby MJSantos » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:22 pm

My uncle gave his '83 Interstate that sat for 19 years and he didn't shut the fuel off when he parked it. It's been a long and fun project but I'm almost done.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:45 pm

Well if that is the bike in your picture, it sure looks beautiful. I hope I can get the bike to a reliable state sooner than later, then sort out the many smaller things more slowly. Even messed up, my brief ride today let me know she's smooth and has some power - I just can't wait to really go for a ride.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:02 am

Okay, as promised, the next questions.
I read thewrite up on changing belts posted by Octaine. I think I understand it all except two things:

1. Right hand tensioner, the setting of the tensior by 360 degree rotation - quoted below - is the spanner zip-tied inplace again, what trick with the spanner?

.this is by the way, with the engine once more
positioned at "T1".(*) You then do the same trick with
the tensioner (and the spanner as per Honda
but now on the right side ) locking
it up after the spring has done its job"

2. Recheck when warm - Do i assemble the bike, run it, and pull the cover? Do I start is assembled but with cover off? What do people mean and is this essential (vs do the procedure and button it up one time)?

Thanks - Dave

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby leanjoe » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:02 am

Just rotate it through 360 degrees so the marks are facing inward. Then, with the tensioner bolts loose,rotate the r side cam bolt ccw a little to slack the belt and let the tensioners adjust on their own. Then tighten up the bolts. You can leave the covers off,warm it up and check again.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:37 pm

This morning I removed the radiator, made new hoses, and prepped it to go back on. Radiator fan switch had been bypassed - I am not going to use that bypass at all. The original switch mounted on the engine reads "open". One side of the plug to the fan seems to go to ground, the other to this switch. Therefore, does this switch throw 12 volts to the fan when hot enough - so I need to confirm that there is 12 vdc on one side of switch when bike ignition is on to know that the system has proper wiring, etc?

I also pulled timing belt cover - took a look - stopped for a break. The belts have some play in each of them, neither feels at all taut (they will both be replaced regardless). With belts in place, I could immediately rotate the left (when on bike) side tension idler, but the right side would not spin at all until I broke it loose. It will now spin. This is with the belts on as-is. Could this be the reason for the squeal I heard intermittently (it was loud and from the engine somewhere)?

Next I will line up all marks, and procede with removing belts. But I want to be sure that the tensioners are okay. Ideas there?

Thanks

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby leanjoe » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:30 pm

Yeah,sounds like the r side was frozen up. When its all apart check it out further,I didn't replace em on either one of my bikes but,who knows ? Your switch troubleshoot sounds right,it runs oof engine temp. If it was bypassed,someone did'nt feel like f'n with it. As long as its down for the belts and radiator refurbish,might as well replace the switch.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:33 pm

What will I see/feel on a bad idler? Should I replace the right one b/c it was stuck even though now freed up?

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby leanjoe » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:18 pm

It should just roll real smoothly,if it freed up,I would lube it up and run it. Look back on NGW.com if you're nervous about it., I'm pretty sure Octane has a primer on tensioner rebuild,or use search feature on there.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby MJSantos » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:11 pm

You can test the switch, pull it out and with an ohm meter across the terminals place the engine side in some water and heat the water up. It should close 0ohms some where around 200 to 215 degrees according to the manual.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:23 am

I am stuck by inexperience right now, trying to put on the timing belts.

I have the timing mark (T-1) on the flywheel lined up at the cross-lines on the crankcase. With the lines here perfect, the belts want each big cog to be off by one tooth (1/2 of a high/low on the belt or cog). Is this proper? If I put the arrow exactly on the case's line, then when the belt gets tensioned at all, it turns the big cog this amount. So with tension, it each arrow winds up about one tooth away from where I had it.

Second, Octane's writing says let the tensioner do all of the tensioning and then tighten its bolts. But this write-up also shows putting a 12mm spanner on the cog whose belt is being adjusted and turning the cog slightly counter-clockwise. So this confuses me.

I will await advice before doing any more. Thanks.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:10 am

Okay - a further report. I ignored my center cog mark and reset the timing mark on the case to as close to perfect as I can. My center cog mark still looks good, I can see what look like an earlier set of marks - they do not line up when timing mark on flywheel is correct. This center cog is directly connected to the flywheel - right? - so the T-1 mark is the MAIN centering mark?

I anticipated the pull of the belt on the cogs up front and shifted each cog to allow for this pull. I put on belts and tensioners and both sides look exactly like the pictures now...belt tension on the left with only the tensioner (the un-tensioned side of the belt is straight) seems good. Locked that side down. The right side I will rotate 360 degrees and set.

This post is in case any one can tell me if i am doing the right thing.

Also, I wonder if the old belts were on a notch off and if that might explain poor idling.

leanjoe
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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby leanjoe » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:31 pm

Yeah,"T' is main mark. As long as both cams sprockets were lined up with your marks and t mark lined up you should be good. I get down on my knees and eyeball the marks as well. Just be sure and rotate it through a few complete revolutions before any attempt to fire up. Yes,being off a bit could be reason for poor running.

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:39 pm

Thanks. I got it so that when T-1 is lined up, the two big cogs are right on the marks on the case - with belts in place and the tensioners bearing on the belts (I tensioned as per Octane's post). I then turned the engine through a bunch of rotations - checked T-1 against the two cogs, repeated this several times. All seemed good so I put the covers back on. I am waiting on a temperature switch for the fan before I put the radiator back on and fire her up.

leanjoe
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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby leanjoe » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:38 pm

Beauty,now you got that under your belt !

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:37 pm

Update: Belts installed, new fan control switch installed, new hoses and radiator cap. Fired her up and she actually ran! A few observations and questions. First, the squeal is not in evidence, the new timing belts are snugger than the old, especially the left one. And I have them set so that every mark is 100% on the money. Started with full choke, then let off choke very quickly. If I hold her at about 600 rpms, she'll idle there, but when I let go of the throttle, the idle drops to about 400 (read on the tach), and after a bit, that is too slow and the bike can't run there.

I wonder if perhaps all I need to do is first ride her a bunch and see if the idle floats up a bit or should I set the idle speed up a hair so that the bike will' idle right now?

Secondly, at what temperature gauge position should the fan come on. The fan did not cut on (it works fine, the wiring is all fine too - i checked that carefully). The gauge only moved in to the low operating range on the readout, just a hair past the place where the line gets "fatter" on the gauge. So to really test the full fan system, seems like I need to go and ride until the bike is hot - and I wonder if the fans rarely come on on 75 degree days like today?

Thanks all - MAYBE the carbs are going to be okay for a whie and the timing getting properly set was my main issue?

Dave

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:42 pm

Oh yeah, one more question...

I of course set all timing belt tension at ambient temps. If I recheck with a warm engine, do I set the T-1 mark and the cog arrows as before, including hte extra 360 spin for the right side check? In other words, it is the same procedure exactly with a warm engine block?

leanjoe
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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby leanjoe » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:07 am

Set the idle at 950 and, you should ride it around to get it up to temp and see that the fan comes on. Yeah,just check that they didnt move off the mark,i'm sure they're fine

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Re: GL1100 - won't idle, chatter, squeal at front on take of

Postby davekrovetz » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:16 am

Thanks. I set the idle at 950 or so. Also, Sea Foam in the tank. After riding a few miles came home. Suddenly the engine smoothed out and the idle jumped up to about 3000. I reset the idle screw to back it down to 950. Now it seems to idle much better there and to stay once warmed-up (needs choke at first - and the choke has more effect now, it can be pulled out just a little bit and bump up idle). I am guessing that the low-speed jets in the carbs might be dirty and that they were (are still?) causing the bike to run on 2 or 3 cylinders intermittently at idle. I hope that the Sea Foam and some use of the bike will clean this out - reasonable? My guess is that if the Sea Foam and use are going to be enough, then the idle should slowly improve further and take-off from a stop will be smoother as it will be on all 4 cylinders.




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