Stripped caliper bleeder nut


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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romanfj
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Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby romanfj » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:22 pm



Hi,

So the 35 year old bleeder nut in my rear brake caliper snapped when trying to unscrew it. Took it to work and asked our machinist to drill and tap it for a slightly larger replacement I got at the auto parts store.

Problem is, just as the bolt starts to "bite", it slips off the threads. It's ok to weak finger tight, which is what we checked before I took it home. I don't want to insult my machinist by bringing it back and saying Something's wrong here.

It was tapped for a 5/16" x 24 tpi bolt and the depth of the seat seems fine.

3 questions:
1. What is the size and thread pitch of the original bleeder for an 1982 GL1100 Interstate.
2. Were the threads on these straight or tapered?
3. If I get a Helicoil insert kit, will the compression of the coil by the new bolt against the bleeder cavity walls make a fluid-tight seal? There is apparently no adhesive, thread lock, epoxy or other "gunk" agent that could fill a thread gap which brake fluid will not dissolve.

Thanks,
Frank


Current 1983 GL1100I
Current 1982 GL1100I/1983 Apencade hybrid (all body pieces are from the '83 A'cade), first Wing
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Mh434
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby Mh434 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:38 pm

I'm sorry to say that I suspect a new caliper is in your future. It's been awhile since I messed with GL1100 calipers but, IIRC, the bleed screws have a tapered seat in the caliper to seal against, and there's simply no way to rely on the threaded area to seal it fluid-tight.

IF the tapered seat is intact, and IF the new bleeder screw matches the angle precisely, you might well be okay. If not, well, I'd be hitting Ebay or somewhere for a new caliper or good used one. I see that there are several on Ebay right now (used, but supposedly in perfect working order) in the $30-$75 range.

The consequences of a failure while riding are too gruesome to contemplate...

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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby FM-USA » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:13 pm

I've not done this but seen in a pinch, tho it is messy.

Brake bleeder hole tapped to 1/4 x 28 thread brass bolt then dropping a steel ball bearing in where it seals the calipers hole. To allow the fluid to flow out easily a hacksaw cut along one side of the bolts threads.
A larger pan catches the fluid and brake cleaner mess.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
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Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby romanfj » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:25 pm

FM-USA,
Although that's a brilliant way to create a ball valve, I don't think it will work for my situation. The other bit of info is that I had to rebuild the entire rear brake system, so everything is full of air. Unless there's a way to attach a vacuum pump to that brass bolt, I don't think I can use that solution.
Frank
Current 1983 GL1100I
Current 1982 GL1100I/1983 Apencade hybrid (all body pieces are from the '83 A'cade), first Wing
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby FM-USA » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:31 pm

Tighten and loosen to open and close as normal. Only difference it's messy.

OH, I'm skim reading again.
OK, 2 person job.
Take the bolt & ball out just use your finger to seal the open hole (or a plastic tube that fits snugly).
In essence your finger works just like a Speed Bleeder.
Once all the air is out insert bolt & ball and bleed out the little air left.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

romanfj
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby romanfj » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:43 pm

Now I'm really going to sound stupid, bring up a potential second problem and go slightly off topic: When I've bled car brakes for the past 30 yrs, I loosen nut, pump pedal, hold, close nut, release pedal and repeat. This procedure would work with your brass bolt and ball bearing and is, I believe, how you intend to get that mess of brake fluid, correct?

When I tried this technique using the rear brake lever on the bike, I couldn't get any fluid to move down from the master cylinder reservoir at all - hence my mention of intending to use a vacuum pump.

Is this sounding like I have a master cylinder with a bore that's so worn it won't allow the seal on top of the master spring to create a vacuum and draw fluid into the system? Everything except the master cylinder body and stem is brand new. I'm thinking I may have a second issue
Current 1983 GL1100I
Current 1982 GL1100I/1983 Apencade hybrid (all body pieces are from the '83 A'cade), first Wing
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby FM-USA » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:06 pm

Your master should be fine.
What I had to do in a dry system was "tickle" the master several times before a full pump and releasing the air in the line.
Tickle meaning only enough movement to close the orifice (where fluid is drawn in), but this can take a while. This tickling also moves the fluid in the master to the lower areas and air higher in essence burping the air in the masters reservoir.
Once the fluid has started in the brake line, just after the master, it goes faster eliminating the "Tickling".

UMMmm, thinking on this as I write. Why not use your shop vacuum to pull fluid?
Glass jar with lid. Poke 2 holes in lid, one for a snug fitting of the tube, the other larger for a shop vac to seal itself over the hole. Fluid will catch in the jar not your vac, unless you suck too much... hence glass jar.

YA, I'm a redneck.... an American Indian red neck. :lol:
Last edited by FM-USA on Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby ct1500 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:00 pm

romanfj wrote:Now I'm really going to sound stupid, bring up a potential second problem and go slightly off topic: When I've bled car brakes for the past 30 yrs, I loosen nut, pump pedal, hold, close nut, release pedal and repeat.


Brake systems get pumped up first then open bleed screw. Pumping a pedal or lever with bleed screws opened draws air in on backstroke accomplishing little.

Too late now but the course of action on a broken bleeder is to apply heat around the threads then use the correct size tapered or spiral extractor and will work most of the time.
This is what I do
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romanfj
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby romanfj » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:04 am

Sorry, didn't describe the process quite right there (tough to write out a process in a hurry), but that's how I bleed the lines.

As for the extractor, yep, I tried that - no dice. That's why I drilled it.

I might have hit on the problem with the new bleeder. Are these tapered threads? I spoke with my machinist friend and he tapped it for straight threads.

Frank
Current 1983 GL1100I
Current 1982 GL1100I/1983 Apencade hybrid (all body pieces are from the '83 A'cade), first Wing
Former CM900
Former CB400
Former Suzuki Savage

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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby FM-USA » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:23 am

OH NOOOooo.
The machinist should have asked for the bleeder going in. :?
These days there are OH-SO MANY different thread and size configurations one needs the item in hand to be sure.
It's not like the old days where it was SAE, BST and Metric everywhere else.

In this modern era, it's STILL not standardized... so confusing. :shock:
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby Mh434 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:41 am

That's so true! My buddy & I have been building cars for 40+ years (mostly British ones), and we still occasionally come across a weird thread pitch we can't identify. We have a term for those - we call them "Left-hand, modified metric Whitworth" threads.

I recall one occasion when we were stymied by such a thread on bolt on a '60's Anglia motor - it completely defied us. It wasn't SAE, it was similar (but not close enough) to a metric, wasn't an actual Whitworth, etc. In the end, in a fit of pique, we pounded a "close enough" bolt part way in, and drove it in the rest of the way with a large impact gun. Thankfully, it was one of those bolts you'll never, ever have to remove again anyway! :lol:

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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby redbug » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 pm

Dorman Products makes a 5/16 -24 tpi brake bleeder screw would this do the job?
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================
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby FM-USA » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:54 pm

redbug wrote:Dorman Products makes a 5/16 -24 tpi brake bleeder screw would this do the job?

romanfj wrote: Problem is, just as the bolt starts to "bite", it slips off the threads. It's ok to weak finger tight, which is what we checked before I took it home. I don't want to insult my machinist by bringing it back and saying Something's wrong here.
. . .
I spoke with my machinist friend and he tapped it for straight threads. Frank

It should work but what I read it sounds like the machinist cut/drilled an oversize hole for the threads.
And in the realm of quality tools, some taps and dies are adjustable. Quite possible your machinist didn't check the tap before using it?
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

romanfj
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby romanfj » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:08 am

Unfortunately, I believe that to be the case. I asked him to check the threads when I gave him the bolt, but I also gave him the package the bold was in. My guess is he looked at the size n the package and just blindly (no pun intended) drilled to get it done quick. Normally, he 's a very careful guy, but I guess everyone has an off day now and then.
Current 1983 GL1100I
Current 1982 GL1100I/1983 Apencade hybrid (all body pieces are from the '83 A'cade), first Wing
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iRide 24/365 99% SmileMiles
================
"You don't buy yourself a
HD to be SATISFIED,...
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HD friends PACIFIED."
================
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ANTAGONISTS need not post.
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby FM-USA » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:09 am

.
IS THERE A CHANCE a 3/8 x 24 bleeder screw will fit in that caliper?
.


Looks like you're in luck, 3/8 x 24 is your next chance at a working bleeder screw.



redbug mentioned Dorman.
Here's a kit... reasonably inexpensive...
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/dorm ... 17190241-P
Last edited by FM-USA on Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

romanfj
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:50 am
Location: Knox, IN
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100I

Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby romanfj » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:36 am

Thanks for the info! The next size up at O'Reilley's was much larger than the one in the chart, so I just kinda figured that was a standard deal. I'll check out some other parts stores. 0.05' of length shouldn't be an issue if I can find the size in your chart. If nothing else, I'd bet McMaster-Carr would have them.

Frank
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Current 1982 GL1100I/1983 Apencade hybrid (all body pieces are from the '83 A'cade), first Wing
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Re: Stripped caliper bleeder nut

Postby newday777 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:41 am

Frank
I haven't been on the forum much this summer, just saw this noted in the October news letter. Did you get your brakes fixed? (You didn't reply back that you had and especially how you fixed the busted bleeder problem)

As to needing to hook up a vac to get the air out after total rebuild, did you not bench bleed your master cylinder before bleeding the rest of the system? All master cylinders have to first be bench bled on any vehicle after rebuild or even if a new one is installed. No way to pull the air out with a vac pump. It just doesn't work properly.
This is done at the banjo bolt (or as on some of the later master cylinders the steel brake line nut).
Protection and capture of brake fluid is necessary so it doesn't hit painted surfaces, plastic sheet and rags work if you can't capture with a bowl.
It can be done on a bench vice putting your finger over the hole to seal it and release pressure, air/fluid. Or on the bike, pump pedal (or lever on front master), hold, break loose bolt/nut to release air as if it was a normal bleeder, tighten, repeat until only fluid comes out. Then you bleed the system at the caliper bleeders as normal.

Please don't leave a thread unfinished on forums as others will read it later and wonder 'well now how do I fix my problem that is just like this that wasn't ever noted how he fixed it?'
Just saying, as you didn't finish off your thread on this subject.(not to be confused with your bleeder thread size vs forum threads)




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