Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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dwight007fchr
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Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:31 pm



Lube or No Lube, that is the Question.......

1983 GL1100 Carbs
1983 GL1100 Carbs


I just pulled these carbs off my 83 GL1100 to rebuild. I searched around and read as much as I could regarding the proper way to rebuild them, however no one ever mentioned whether or not you should lube-up the upper vacuum slides after cleaning them. I found one guy on Youtube who actually uses the red slippery assembly lube on the vacuum cylinders, and I used plain 30 weight oil.

Side view of Carbs
Side view of Carbs


Underneath these upper "cups" are large pistons which move up and down based on the vacuum put on them. I just soaked them in gas for a day and then just cleaned off any brownish dirt, using a toothbrush in the upper "ringed" areas. There were a couple small "metal on metal" wear spots on two of the vacuum cylinders, but it was smooth. I just believe that coating them with oil helps prevent the metal-on-metal wear. Over time the small bit of oil will leech downwards and get sucked into the pistons, but heck.....that just helps lube the rings like a 2 stroke oil system. So, does everyone just "know" to lube these moving parts, or just put them back in clean and dry?

Here is a pic of the carbs as I was re-installing them onto the Wing......No. 1 and 3 Vacuum Covers are off to allow the carbs to slide in, and it is still a difficult process. There is a "sweet spot" that will allow them to slide in, and you have to find that spot exactly right.

Vacuum Slides under the No. 1 & 3 Covers
Vacuum Slides under the No. 1 & 3 Covers


So, whats the consensus......"To Lube or Not To Lube????"



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RBGERSON
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby RBGERSON » Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:01 am

No lube but you need to polish the shaft and the tube..with something like a jewelers cloth or scotch bright pad..polish no sanding..with steel wool or sandpaper.
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:07 pm

I agree- no lube.
Some of us use aluminum foil to polish the slides.
After install, slip a compact mirror down were you can see the slides, give her some gas and see if they all move, if not recheck and polish.
Not much to it! Regards, Johnny

dwight007fchr
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:48 pm

Johnny and RB.......Well, I guess we all have our preferences. I just think lubing with oil helps them to move better, and reduces metal to metal wear. With the oil, they work great so far. Maybe the oil or assembly lube would be an issue if you rebuilt the carbs, put them on, and then never ran the bike.....maybe the oil would become tacky and cause the slides to stick over time?

The important thing is to not sand or use abrasive material on them, and make sure those grooves on the top are not gummed up.

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spiralout
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby spiralout » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:12 pm

Clean, polished and dry.
There's another one for the consensus you were asking for.
dwight007fchr wrote:Johnny and RB.......Well, I guess we all have our preferences. I just think lubing with oil helps them to move better, and reduces metal to metal wear.

The why'd you ask if you already have your preference and are going to lube them anyway? ;)

dwight007fchr
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:24 pm

Spiralout........Well, as I said in the beginning of this thread, I was not finding any information on how to clean and re-install these vacuum slides. I did find one Youtube video of a motorcycle mechanic in Florida who always applied engine assembly lube on the slides, and I wanted to get some feedback here. I had already installed the carbs back on the bike before I started this thread......just so others can read the opinions and make an informed decision when rebuilding their carbs.

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spiralout
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby spiralout » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:46 pm

Gotcha. You should have asked before reassembly then.
Here's some more info
http://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12168
http://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20143

Edit: Thanks for posting the carb pics. I like carbs 8-)

dwight007fchr
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:31 pm

spiralout......Wow, those were some great links......that guy did a superb job of illustrating the carb rebuild process. Loved his hand pump, which shows we can still manage when crap hits the fan and we dont have all the luxuries (like compressors) to get the job done.

I wish I had seen the information on the vacuum slide scuffing, common on the 82 and 83 GL1100s, and I would have done a bit more polishing on mine. He did not mention whether he used oil on them, although he did use some grease on the accelerator pump shaft.

Thanks for posting those links.

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spiralout
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby spiralout » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:18 pm


dwight007fchr
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:17 am

Spiralout.......I read those links (except the ones you have to pay $ and order), but so far I have not seen anyone specifically say not to lube the slides and give a reason not to do so.

Reading all this material really makes one realize how complex these carbs are, and forgetting to do one small thing in the rebuild can have huge negative results. Like my No. 1 and 3 carbs are now leaking gas......so, could be that one of the small ORings slipped out. Not a process that you want to rush through.

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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dingdong » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:50 am

Read this tech tip from Randakk and pay special attention to #18. http://www.randakksblog.com/special-tun ... p-service/
Tom

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ekvh
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby ekvh » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:01 am

A few years ago someone mentioned and cited references that the material inside the cap portion was designed to get a very fine oil. He said it was microscopic holes and that soaking the brass(?) in a special oil would allow the oil to "soak" in. I make no claims to its validity as fact. He suggested an overnight soak, but then wiping as clean as possible. Spraying the tube portion of the cap with brake fluid and the like, might strip this out.

IMHO it gives credibility to those who use MMO or ATF in their fuel who think it helps performance.

There are holes that feed the cap area and slide area from the throats and on sudden deceleration and then WOT it could allow a mist in the chamber helping to keep things lubed.

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spiralout
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby spiralout » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:40 am

dingdong wrote:Read this tech tip from Randakk and pay special attention to #18. http://www.randakksblog.com/special-tun ... p-service/

Thanks, that's what I was originally looking for from Randakk's but couldn't find it. I've read it before somewhere else, too. Might have been Halasz' book on 1100 carbs.

ekvh wrote:A few years ago someone mentioned and cited references that the material inside the cap portion was designed to get a very fine oil. He said it was microscopic holes and that soaking the brass(?) in a special oil would allow the oil to "soak" in.

I'd like to read that if you can find it.

dwight007fchr
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:54 pm

dingdong......I read the link on how to work on the 75,76,77 1000s, and he did say not to use any lubricant on the vacuum slides. But he does not give an explanation. So, I still do not understand the logic of not applying a light film of oil on them.

ekvh........Thats good info......that ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas could actually mist into the slides and provide some microscopic lube to the slides. I always add good ole Marvel Mystery Oil to every tank, and Jay Leno is always speaking very highly of it, and using it in all his oldies.

Well, this will be a good test......if I have any issues with my well-lubed vacuum slides, I will post and let everyone take me to the woodshed.

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:06 pm

I have been a muzzleloading rifle shooter for 35+ years, I shoot the old fashioned way, Daniel Boone style. (no sissy inlines for me :)) . I use Black powder only (a terrible corrosive). A lot of the practitioners of this profession also believe that oil will penetrate the metal thru the pores and help in the conditioning of the bore. It does make sense after some thought. The oil fills the microscopic holes, and after being subjected to pressure and heat it forms a
seal that keeps moisture and residue from "creeping" into the interior of the metal. These microscopic holes are there, perhaps not as small as your last pay raise, but they are there.
Seeing how we are not shooting the slides out of a muzzleloader, however, this is merely conjecture. :)
It is an interesting avenue of thought, very interesting indeed. Regards, Johnny

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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:21 pm

JohnnySmoke......There you go, a great idea for an experiment......if you can find a muzzle loader large enough to shoot the Honda vacuum slides, you could have a very interesting test going on. Maybe shift from a muzzle loader to a civil war cannon. Shoot, why not add some fun to the experiment, and place an old Suzuki CalvaryKaide about 50 yards out as a good-sized target......and whats wrong with "blasting" the Goldwing's competition?

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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby spiralout » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:31 pm

dwight007fchr wrote:and place an old Suzuki CalvaryKaide about 50 yards out as a good-sized target......and whats wrong with "blasting" the Goldwing's competition?

That bike was a huge styling rip off of a Honda. I vote to shoot it.

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Re: Proper Way to Clean Carb Vacuum Slides---Lube or No Lube?

Postby dwight007fchr » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:33 pm

spiral......Thats a Big 10-4 from my backdoor.




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