1983 Aspencade engine rattle


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thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:53 am



I have been restoring a 1983 GL1100 Aspencade and have rebuilt the carbs and put on new timing belts and checked them 2 or 3 times (timing on T1 and belt pulleys pointing to the correct marks on the belt casing). I just resynced the carbs and they weren't that far off. The problem i have now is a loud rattle like all the valves were about the fly out of the engine or the timing chain was real loose. If I race the engine it sounds real solid but still rattles. It starts real quick. The bike has 27k miles on it. The bike has not been ridden in 10 years. I bought it with the right head removed and had to put in 2 new intake valves on the right side because the timing belts had broken. I have put up a short video showing the bike idling. Maybe someone will recognize the rattle. The bike sounds real good and real bad at the same time and I'm afraid to ride it. http://www.environmentalcontrolinc.com/gl1100motor2.wmv



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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:46 am

That really does sound like a valve noise to me as well. I would first:

- Re-check the timing belts to ensure the sprockets are lined up correctly
- Check/adjust the valve clearances
- Check the compression of all four cylinders to see if a valve is damaged
- If all that fails, borescope the cylinders and see if there is metal or debris floating around inside a cylinder

It really doesn't sound like a good noise. You might be able to use a mechanic's stethoscope to localize it better.

thomascomcast
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:23 pm

I have double and tripple checked everything you mentioned and everything checks out fine - it's driving me bannanas. I'm taking it to a Goldwing expert mechanic tomorrow who is going to check everything one more time to see if I am staring right at the problem and can't see the forest for the trees. Maybe I'll just pour some Jack Daniels in the gas. My doctor says that cures everything.

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:49 pm

Wow, it is really making some noise there, you know what it sounds like, like it doesn't have enough oil in the engine, I know that's not the case here, but that's what it sounds like...Let us know when you figure this one out... Wow...heck it sounds like there's no oil in the engine, I'm sorry man I'm not making fun or nothing but it sure isn't a normal sound..I'd be concerned too if it were me..

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:44 am

Is The Noise on one side only?I Had a gl1000 with a swollen inner thermal liner in the exhaust header causing severe back pressure.Made it sound like a top end rattle.

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:03 pm

The noise sound like its coming from all over the engine and towards the rear. I just trailered the bike to a Goldwing expert mechanic I know because i give up - and it takes a lot for me to give up.

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dingdong
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby dingdong » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:15 am

When a belt breaks there could also be damage to the pistons or rods on that side.
Tom

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thomascomcast
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:19 am

That's what i'm worried about. I suspect that my Goldwing guru won't find anything and I will have to break down the engine. Fun. But it has good compression and only 27k.

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maestro319
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby maestro319 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:32 pm

Hmph!! I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. Waaaaaay far from it. But when I heard the sound my very first thought was, valves.
BTW, that's so cool to be able to post a video and actually hear the problem rather than trying to decipher it from a written description. Gotta love technology.

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:48 pm

Clutch come apart or problem with the primary chain and/or tentioner?
Either way it sounds like a pull apart to find out.Good luck.Some of us
have spare parts about.Just ask.

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:18 pm

I have been a shade tree mechanic for 50 years and my Goldwing mechanic knows his stuff. I talked with thim today after he spent several hours trying to find out what the rattle was and he couldn't. I'm going to check simpler stuff first like the water pump and then pull the engine and check the chain. The bike has high and equal compression in all cylinders which leads me to believe it's something that doesn't require splitting the engine. Just in case I have cleaned up my garage some and unfolded my engine operating table and may end up doing surgery this weekend. I should have put this up on CarTalk on the radio to see if any one can guess right what the problem is.

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:33 am

I'm losing sleep about this.Before you pull the motor,pull timing belts
,pull plugs,close the valves(right side all valves closed when mark
is at 11:00 position)this will allow engine to be turned over by
hand with no valve action.rotate crank by hand first for binding.use a drill to rotate engine.should be
able to isolate noise from there.cheap sthesocope at harbor freight.
Rebuilding my 83 engine this weekend.

thomascomcast
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:23 am

I'll do what you suggest. If you have any spare 4-letter words you can loan me, that would be appreciated. I think I've used up all of mine.

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:18 am

I'm no master mechanic but isn't there a oil pump on these bikes, is it working proper?

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:22 am

There are two oil pumps, one in the front and one in the back.

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:37 am

I'd like to know what happens, will you please post it, in case it ever happens to me..The engine oil pump and the clutch oil pump, if he is getting good compression, it's not likely to be that then...I think he said he changed just two valves, the intakes only, should he have changed the exhaust too or no..? maybe he should run the engine without the valve cover on just for a minute..at this point I'd be willing to try anything..

thomascomcast
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:09 pm

As far as valves go, a compression test on all cylinders show equal and high compression in all cylinders.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:34 am

Rotate crank 90deg from tdc to pull all pistons out of the way of the valves.On the right head,with belt removed,hand rotate 45deg past normal timing mark.left head,rotate 180deg+45deg past timing mark,you'll feel the loose spot.this closes all the valves.rotate engine by wrench for binding,then a drill.if the noise is there,put a mark on the crank.remember the trans.is geared down at the primary.if the noise syncs with the mark it's at the engine level.if it' out of sync it's
at the trans level.Rotate crank 90deg from tdc to pull all pistons out of the way of the valves,by wrench turn the cam,then use a drill to spin.this takes more effort than the crank,this allows each assembly to be tested.

thomascomcast
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:47 pm

I may have found my problem. Thank goodness I have a spare engine from a junker 1100 I bought that I can compare my engine with. My alternator flywheel had some play in and out. By looking at my junker engine I found there was a thick washer (with gear teeth cutouts on it's inner perimeter) missing in my engine between the big alternator flywheel (with the magnets) and the gear that the starter chain spins on. That allowed the flywheel to move about 1/16 or more backward and forward - and it made a solid clunk when it moved. And I found that all the gear teeth that were sitting in the bottom of the engine matched the teeth on the alternator shaft that were inside the engine. A former owner had apparently replaced the alternator shaft and gears inside the engine, which does not require breaking the engine in half, and he just left the scrap gear teeth in the engine. And he forgot to put that washer on the alternator shaft behind the flywheel and that has caused me all kinds of cunfusion. Apparently the timing belts broke on this engine and that bent two intake valves in one head and stripped off all the gear teeth from the alternator gears that are inside the block. From now on I think I'll change my timing belts about every month. I'll replace the primary gear chain and the last gear at the rear of the crankshaft and button this engine up. Anybody got a bad crankshaft with a good last sproket (behind the primary chain gear) they want to sell . . . cheap. Make me an offer I can't refuse.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:44 pm

I have a 80 gl1100 complete block with rusted jugs.I'll strip whatever you need before i junk it(It's my third donor block for my rebuild).Just send a list of parts(there free+ups)I'm going to save the clutch.The stator is cooked.Bearings on the output shaft is bad.All else should be OK,Had 50kmiles,sat up for 12 years.

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby littlebeaver » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:58 pm

Glad you figured it out, what a nightmare.. ..That doesn't sound like it's a common problem...Good luck to ya..

thomascomcast
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby thomascomcast » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:49 am

All I really need is the last (rear) gear on the crankshaft. I don't care what the crankshaft looks like. I wasnt to swap the last gear with the one on my crankshaft just so I can reuse the same rod bearings. There is some much confusion about matching crankshafts and rod bearings. I don't know if the crankshaft on a 1980 is the same as a 1983.

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:27 pm

Wow, so the sound that sounded like nuts and bolts rattling around in the crankcase actually wasn't that far off!

Glad you're on your way to getting this solved.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:13 am

I'll split my 80 case and look at the crank sprocket.And yes,keep the same used bearings on the crank it ran on.just plastigauge before final assembly.

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Re: 1983 Aspencade engine rattle

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:58 pm

I pulled the crank but it doesn't appear that the last gear on it is removable.It looks like it was heat fitted.no retainer or key-ways.




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