82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?


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johnWK
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82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by johnWK » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:42 pm



Hey people,

This is my first post on this site, though I've been lurking around since I bought my Goldwing back in September. I'd like to also mention before we go any further that this is the first bike I've personally owned, until this year I was still riding the Rebel my dad bought for me when I turned 16. He did most of the maintenance on that bike, and as such I have much to learn about my Goldwing. Bought the manual online, and got a Clymer as well. I'll be the first to tell you I know almost nothing about bike repair or maintenance, but I am excited to learn so I can keep my Wing purring well past the 100,000 mile mark.

That said, I think I messed up pretty good. I finally gave up on the riding season and started going through some of the steps to winterize my bike. Got her up on the center stand, warmed up the engine, drained out the old oil which was low anyway. Filled the tank with fresh gas and topped it off with the correct amount of Sta-bil. Bought 4 quarts of Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil, a new FRAM filter (C6009 was the model I believe?) and replaced the filter and filled the bike up with approximately 3.6qts of oil.

This is where I started to realize I probably made a mistake. After reviewing the DIY article on here, I determined that instead of draining the oil through the drain bolt, I just removed the oil filter housing. I'm guessing this means I did not get all the old oil out of the pan, and added 3.6qts of fresh oil on top of the old. The oil level in the window is definitely above the high limit. I put everything back together and started the bike, hoping the oil level would level out once it worked through the new filter. The bike turned over and started immediately, and sounded healthier than ever. I let it run for about 5 minutes, turned it off, and covered her for the night. This morning, I noticed the oil window is still full, and the oil definitely looks dirtier than it did last night. Just as concerning, she won't turn over even once for me. The lights and headlight are working, and it makes sound, but the engine doesn't budge.

I'm a rookie at this. I figured before my dumba** screws something else up I'd come to you fine folks for help. I looked up a few articles but I wanted some opinions on where to start. Drain the oil the correct way and get another new filter and another few quarts of oil? Check the spark plugs? Did I f*** up my seals permanently? I feel like an idiot, and even worse I feel terrible and guilty that I may have hurt my darling.


memento mori

Aussie81Interstate
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:21 pm

First off - welcome,

Next - drain the oil via the oil drain bolt - then refill with the correct amount of oil - don't try and start the bike first to warm the oil up.
I would just re-use the old oil as it comes out - it will be a mix of the new and old oils....

Then I would check the battery connections and battery voltage, then try start her up again - if you overfilled it - and it was running ok - it probably still is..

cheers

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DenverWinger
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by DenverWinger » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:32 am

Too much oil in the crankcase wouldn't prevent the engine from turning over. Probably a hydrolock - Fluid in the combustion chamber won't compress.

Pull the spark plugs, cover the sparkplug holes with a rag and then hit the starter. if there's fluid in one of the cylinders it will come shooting out, the rag to keep from it spraying across the garage.

After that you can put the plugs back in and it should start just fine.

If hydrolock is confirmed, it is probably gasoline, I really doubt an overfilled crankcase would get that much oil past the rings. GL-1100 carburetors are famous for occasionally seeping fuel past needle-and-seat while parked, overfilling the carb bowl and hydrolocking a cylinder. a Seafoam cleaning treatment helps this. Shutting fuel petcock to "off" when not driving (best practice anyway) prevents this.

If the hydrolock turns out to be oil, still no damage done. Just expect a bunch of oil smoke when the bike first starts, and not to worry, the smoke will go away...

I wouldn't re-use the drained oil, it will be a 50/50 mix of fresh oil and the acidic nasties you were wanting to get out of there in the first place.
They say 98% of all Hardleys ever made are still on the road..... The other 2% made it home. :lol:
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Wilcoy02
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Wilcoy02 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:25 am

I would not get another filter. Open the drain plug and let the oil drip slowly out until the correct level is in the sight glass.

How cold is it? My bike will not start after it gets so cold. No heated garage.
Next spring add some sea foam to the oil and run it 200 miles and change the oil while the oil is hot.
Add sea foam to the gas tank also.

I add 3-4 oz of atf to every tank of gas on my bike.

We have all done things like this so don't beat yourself up over this.
This is how we all learned.
There are no dumb ?? here. Just the ones that do not get asked.

Welcome to the forum.

Aussie81Interstate
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:27 pm

Depending on the ago of the "old" oil that was in there - make your own decision if you need to put further "fresh" oil in. I see it as if you are not riding the bike for a period of time, it really won't hurt the bike to sit for a few months with a mixture of the old and new oil blend. If you really feel you need to do it - then go ahead. As mentioned above it could also be hydrolocked.

cheers

let us know how you get on..

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johnWK
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by johnWK » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:48 pm

Update, she's running again :D

I went ahead and bit the bullet - drained the fouled oil and replaced it with fresh to the correct level. Pulled the old spark plugs and pushed the starter a few times, bought some anti-seize and put in the fresh plugs - lo and behold she started right up like nothing had ever happened.

Gonna check her again in the morning, but I have to say hearing her start back up tonight felt really good. Thank you all for your help!
memento mori

Aussie81Interstate
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:03 am

Nice to hear,

Also a good learning experience for you - though it cost a bit for the new oil and a bit of time...:)

I'm positive you won't make the same mistake again

cheers

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Wilcoy02
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Wilcoy02 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:06 pm

It's great that things work out.

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johnWK
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by johnWK » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:44 pm

I went out this morning and tried to start her up and noticed the same problem. The starter whined, but the plugs weren't firing. I drained the oil again, refilled it slightly below full to be safe, took the spark plugs out again, blew out the holes with the starter, put everything back together and she started up good as new again. Took her for a short ride, enough to get the engine up to operating temperature, and put it away in the garage for the night.

Going to check in the morning if the problem is still there in the morning...

If it is, what would you guys recommend? My next guess would be to check the battery I suppose, being that's the one thing I haven't checked yet. It's been warmer these past few days but it's spent the last month at under 20 degrees not hooked up to anything and not started. I have a battery tender but I haven't hooked it up yet. Or is it possible theres more oil in the plug holes that needs to be blown out? As far as I could tell all the new plugs I put in yesterday were completely dry and clean, aside from the 5 minutes I had the bike running last night after I put them in.
memento mori

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Maz » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:52 am

Re-reading your first and last posts, am I correct in assuming that the starter spins but the engine doesn't? If so, the problem is that your starter clutch (sprag clutch) is sticking.

Maz
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by dingdong » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:05 am

Your initial post has been misinterprited by all of us for lack of clarity. As stated in the last post your problem all along has been the sprague clutch not working properly. Your next step should be to run a dose of Seafoam in the oil to dissolve any sludge and un-clog the starter clutch. Then one more oil change. I don't remember if you mentioned what weight of oil you are using but if it is too heavy for winter use it can cause the starter clutch to slip.
Tom

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by johnWK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:52 pm

I apologize for any confusion I've caused, I figured detailing every last step would be beneficial to identify where the problem arose, but I guess I was mistaken. I've been using Valvoline 10w40, and I'll check on the starter as you mentioned. I suppose I'll have to wait until Spring to find out for sure, I could add the Seafoam now but I can't really get her out for a long enough ride for it to work as intended.

Thanks again
memento mori

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by dingdong » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:22 pm

We get confused easily. lol. 10w40 should be just fine. And just so you don't get confused, the starter clutch is not in the starter it is internal to the engine. No way to check it. The most common cause for this is sludge build up around the clutch mechanism. Seafoam will dissolve the sludge into the oil and flush out when the oil is drained. Also if it is very cold outside this can cause the oil to be too thick to let the clutch grip properly. Good luck!
Tom

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by AZgl1800 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:48 pm

If you intend to do a lot of riding in cold weather, put some 5w20 or 5w30 oil in it.

I am using Shell Rotella T6 in 5w30 and my bike starts in sub-freezing weather just like it does in the summer months.
John
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by johnWK » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:59 am

This is why I came here. There's so much experience and knowledge here, it's the best possible resource for someone like me. I'm very interested in learning more about how my bike works, and how to take it apart and put it back together, but I'll be the first person to tell you I really have no idea what I'm doing.

Since it was functioning smoothly up until the cold weather came around, and turns on without issue after I tinker with it a bit, I'm guessing the issue is probably sludge buildup as you mentioned, dingdong. Or simply that it's too damn cold and she's just telling me to leave her alone til it warms up.

Thanks for the advice AZ, but so far here in central Iowa the cold has brought a lot of rain, ice, and snow. I'm gonna let it sit til March or April and then break out the Seafoam for the first long ride. If the temperature and Seafoam don't do the trick, you'll be seeing me again right here. Thanks for your patience and advice.
memento mori

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Wilcoy02 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:59 am

Let it sit till the weather warms up.
Do not go out and start it for 5 mins just to hear it purr or try to purr. That will cause more problems.
Just let it sit.

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by radecal » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:57 am

I feel for you blokes over there in the good ol' US of A!
Having to winterise your bikes every year would be a pain but at least you would have time to do big maintenance jobs on them provided your sheds are warm.
One point though on this thread. If you have a mixture of old and new oils as what happened here, dump it all and cut your losses.
Better to have fresh oil in the engine as it is cheap and engines aren't!
On the riding front, we can ride all year round here in northern Australia but temperatures here can sometimes be a pain, literally!!!
A couple of weeks ago, it was 45 degrees C here (113 degrees F) and the major issue was melting bitumen and overheatng bikes. Road/ground temperature was in the 70's C so not conjusive to comfortable riding conditions.
That works out to be about 170+ degrees F!
Today is not far off that so oils cop a hiding.
Sometimes wish we had some of your cool weather but you can have your snow!
Regards,
RAD

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by rogmerrill » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:48 am

I notice you said you used anti seize on the spark plugs. I used to do that, too, but I use nothing but NGK plugs and they recommend against anti seize compound. Apparently they design their plugs to not need it, and it is a bit of a pain to use. I think it may mess up the torque readings you get on your torque wrench.

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by WingAdmin » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:37 am

rogmerrill wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:48 am
I notice you said you used anti seize on the spark plugs. I used to do that, too, but I use nothing but NGK plugs and they recommend against anti seize compound. Apparently they design their plugs to not need it, and it is a bit of a pain to use. I think it may mess up the torque readings you get on your torque wrench.
If you use the service-manual prescribed method, you don't need to use a torque wrench: you tighten using your fingers until you can't turn the plug anymore with your fingers (meaning it's fully seated). You then put your plug wrench on the plug and turn it exactly 1/2 turn. This compresses the washer and torques the plug properly.

This works only for the initial installation of new plugs - don't try it for old plugs whose washers have already been compressed!

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Scanjo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:01 pm

Just a side note since I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, you should only remove spark plugs from a COLD engine (over night cold). The metal of the plug expands at a different rate than the aluminum of the heads and the plugs can become temporarily stuck in a warm or hot head. If you apply enough force to remove the plug anyway, you just might remove the threads from the spark plug hole right along with the spark plug.

When removing the plug, it may start out easy and then get tougher. Never force it. Screw it back in, then back out till i gets tough again. Screw it back in. Each time it should back out a bit further. Keep repeating till it's out. If you force it, you risk damaging the aluminum threads in the head. You can use penetrating oil also on particularly stubborn plugs. Take your time. Your patience will be rewarded.

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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by johnWK » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:36 am

radecal-

You're right on the money. Winter is tough because we can't ride, but as a newborn home mechanic it's provided ample time for me to read my Honda and Clymer manuals, and get to know my bike a little better as I work through small projects while it sits. As someone who knew almost nothing about how any sort of engine worked as recently as last summer, but has been riding since they were 15, (now 27) it's been an incredibly enlightening experience.

everyone else-

Thanks for all the great information and help. I think the issue came down to the arctic temperatures here in Iowa last month, and possibly my sprag clutch being a little gummed up. I think in my panic, and beginner-level knowledge, I was making the problem out to be far more severe than it was. It warmed up a couple weeks back and I took the opportunity to throw a few ounces of seafoam in my fuel tank (which had already been treated with marine Sta-Bil), and a few ounces in my crankcase. I took the bike out and rode smooth for an hour or so, drained the oil and replaced my filter (again). Topped the tank off with ethanol-free 87, more Sta-Bil and a shot of MMO, and filled up the crankcase (exactly to the upper limit bar in the oil window) with some Delo 15w40. It's been in the 40's a few days since then and I've taken every opportunity to get out there, and without fail my bike has fired up immediately, and dare I say it is running even better than it was when I bought it in September. It's looking like another 40+ day tomorrow, which means an hour or two on the bike before work 8-)

Thanks again for all the help and wisdom.
memento mori

Scanjo
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Scanjo » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:55 am

You might consider 5w-30 for winter months if the starter clutch continues to be an issue. Keep the 15w-40 for summer.

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johnWK
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by johnWK » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:42 pm

I had definitely considered going with something else, but I also keep telling myself that every ride I go on is going to be the last one before it actually warms up, so I put the 15w40 in there thinking it'd be sitting until April.

So far I haven't been able to stay true to my word
memento mori

Scanjo
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Re: 82 1100 Aspencade won't start - too much oil?

Post by Scanjo » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:25 pm

I think you have learned something about yourself to plan better for next year. ;)

Of course if the starter clutch doesn't act up then don't worry about it. It's a none issue.



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