1983 GL1100a Engine whine


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:09 pm



I have been restoring a 1983 GL1100 that I bought with a lot of parts in cardboard boxes. I fixed a mysterious loud machine gun noise in the engine by taking the engine apart finding a missing washer between the alternator and the engine block that allowed the alternator to jump around about 1/16 of an inch. I bought a used crankshaft because the old one had ragged teeth on the last sprocket and I bought a used timing chain because the old one had some damage. And I replaced 2 intake valves on the right head. I put it all together and it runs great . . . . but. There is a loud whine in the engine that seems to be close to the front of the engine. The idler bearings on the timing belts are quiet and the timing belts are new and there is nothing towards the front of the engine that could cause the noise. I've had an expert listen to the engine and he couldn't figure out what was causing the noise. I am learning more about a Goldwing engine than I wanted to learn. A short sound video of the bike and the whining noise is at http://www.environmentalcontrolinc.com/ ... 0whine.wmv. All wild guesses as to what the noise is will be appreciated.


Last edited by thomascomcast on Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:43 pm

I rebuilt my 83,when i installed the new belts I followed the directions.The belts whined terribly.when i re-checked the belts they were very tight(as in no possible deflection on the long stretch).Sounded like a banjo string.I backed off the tension a little,the whine all but disappeared.Found out that when I tightened the idler it was walking a little and shifting position,over-tightening the belts.pull the covers and listen there.My belts deflect about 3/16 in.or so on the long stretch.Keep at it,It sounds better than the last time I heard it.Virgil

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WingAdmin
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:24 pm

Yep, I know that sound. It's definitely the timing belts. Loosen the tensioners off just a hair, and it will go away.

Oh, and by the way, the throttle is on the right side. :)

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:03 am

He was right,the bike was backward.

thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:07 am

Cmon, don't pick on me cause I tried to turn the wrong throttle. If you had been working on this 83 beast as long as I have you would be a little punchy too. I knew I should have cut the first few seconds off the video - I'll do it this afternoon. I'll also loosen the belts although I have not tightened the belts "banjo" tight. I have rebuilt a dozen car engines for me and my sons over the years but I swear whoever built this engine was on drugs. Thanks for the help.

thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:00 am

I loosened the belts to 1/2 inch deflection, which makes me nervous, with no change in sound. Any other suggestions?

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:13 am

Hey guy's could a wore out bearing in the water pump make that whine??? I am guessing..

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WingAdmin
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:18 am

This is from the 1200 service manual:

GL1200 timing belt deflection
GL1200 timing belt deflection


the 1100 service manual has no such instructions, but being the identical system, I would put more credence on following the measurement for the 1200 than just "winging it" and guessing.

Also check the condition of the teeth on the belts themselves. They should be sharp, with no worn edges.

If the whine is not going away, it's time to get a mechanic's stethoscope out and find the exact source of the noise.

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:47 am

You guy's are cold...the throttles on the right side...That's baddddddd...As if this poor guy hasn't been through enough, that's right kick him again while he's down..I'm sure you guy's know one another..get a good known set of tensioners and try them on it..Mine made a whine like that, I got different tensioners and my problem went away..

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:50 pm

Whine location please,front,rear,left,right?I don't remember the whine in your first video before your repairs,just the bad rattle.If it didn't whine before the repairs,that would eliminate the belts,idler,water pump,etc.if they are the same parts.If the belts are new and the crank sprocket or cam sprocket are rusty it may whine until they wear the belts to match the sprocket(not the best idea).I listened again several times,it plain old sounds like belt noise.I had to wire wheel mine to get them to a point of acceptable condition.

thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:24 pm

I bought a mechanics stethascope and will play with that tomorrow. I can't remember if the whining noise was audible when the machine gun noise that no one could figure out and that I fixed was first heard a few weeks ago. I've set timing belts before with no problem. The belts I'm using are Gates belts recommended by Randakk.com. I've use them before with no problem. I think I'll grab a pair of old timing belts and put them on to see if there is any difference. After that I'm going to buy a jug of Jack Daniels and see if that helps. I appreciate the help.

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:30 pm

Is the JD for all the abuse?...I hope you get it worked out..That is a smart idea though...

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WingAdmin
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:18 pm

The Gates belts are fine, I've had a set of those on my 1100 for years. They don't whine like that.

dwight007fchr
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby dwight007fchr » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:09 pm

Yeah......I bet if your pour a few shots of Jack Daniels down the gas tank, she will stop whinning. Ha haa.

My guess was the same as another member.....maybe the water pump making that whinning noise.

Good luck. I just started a restoration of an 83 Interstate that I bought this weekend.......so, I will be coming up with alot of tough questions too.

dc

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby littlebeaver » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:29 pm

Hey Thomascomcast, did you figure out the problem yet? What was it?

thomascomcast
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:18 am

Have not figure it out yet. The bike runs fine, just whiney. One roadblock after another. Two techies and myself traced the noise to the back of the engine. I compared the plunger thing that pushes the clutch plates in on my 83 1100 with the one on my 81 1100 and thought I was missing a little dowel push rod so I chased around to find that but found the 83 didn't use one. I ordered the bearing that the plunger was set in and it took Fedex 4 days to deliver but I don't think thats it. Tried to remove the clutch basket on the 83 but it required a special goofy socket that nobody had so a friend of mine made me one and I haven't used it yet. Every time I go to work on the bike there is another roadblock. Tomorrow I will take out the clutch plunger and bearing and the thing that pushes the plunger and start the bike and see if the noise dissappears. If it doesn't I will take the clutch basket off the 83, because a couple of teckies said the noise was coming from that area, and I will check it for a broken clutch plate or something. If nothing shows up I will start the engine without the clutch basket and see if the noise goes away. If it doesnt I will pull the engine and look at everything inside the back cover and compare it closely with the parts diagrams. If nothing is obvious I will shoot the bike or donate it to the Smithsonian. Having built a dozen car engines this bike engine is goofy and noone can tell me why it is goofy. I thought I was a pretty good mechanic until I worked on this engine.

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littlebeaver
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:27 pm

Your a great mechanic man, you'll fix it, hang in there and don't make threats like that she might hear you, she's just testing you like most kids test there parents.. You will find that it's something simple. I find that if you play your favorite music and stay calm things have a way of working out..Please don't shoot it.. :o I wonder if the stator could make that sound doesn't something in there spin?
Last edited by littlebeaver on Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

goldtr6c
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby goldtr6c » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:51 pm

I ride an 82 that has always had a loud whine compared to my 76 and 85.. I know its not the tensioners and the the only thing left to make that noise is the straight cut gears in the tranny. i have noticed over the years that when I ran Ams-Oil full synthetic 20-50w, it was noticably quieter. I've just had to get used to it over the years.

thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:04 pm

Ii had the bike block apart a couple of weeks ago and put in a used crank in better condition than the one that came with the bike and a use timing chain. It could be those 2 items but 2 Honda mechanics seemed to point to the clutch area. And 2 of us using stethoscopes leaned toward the rear of the block. So I will fool with that area first. But I will keep you oil in mind. I need to change the oil anyway since I replaced some suspicious parts out of the block and pulled all the loose gear teeth out of the block and the bike hasn't been ridden in 10 years. I told a Honda guru friend that I had no doubt I would be calling him Christmas Eve and telling what I have found lately and what should I try next.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:01 pm

There are numerous roller bearings,i suppose any one could be bad,There are 3 large needle bearings for the starter clutch,maybe one is stuck and squealing on the shaft.You might try some MMO before teardown.

thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:44 pm

At this point I have to rely on Honda mechanics and their guesses, and the stethoscope scoping by two people. It will just be a matter of trying everything and if I can't pinpoint the problem then I will drive it to every Honda mechanic in Georgia and see how much free advice I can get. It can't be the gear on the crank that meshes with the final drive shaft because the noise remains when the engine is in neutral. The stethescopes don't point to the starter but I wish I could remove the starter when it starts to make sure the whine is still there and eliminate the starter. Tomorrow morning I will remove the 'plunger' parts that push the clutch cage in and see if the whine stops and then remove the clutch cage and see if the whine stops. I have an 81 1100 on the floor of my garage that I bought as a part of a parts bike so I can see everything that is behind the rear cover. I can see all the big bearings in the rear of the engine so if I have to take the back cover off the engine on my bike I can compare all the parts from both engines. Thats how I found the missing spacer/washer on the alternator flywheel that made the bike sound like a machine gun. Shoot, I might just take the bike in the backyard and start it with the rear cover off and put a stethoscope to everything and see if I can pinpoint the whine. Is that possible? Nutty! And I would be covered in motor oil for the few seconds the engine is running. That will be my last option.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:53 pm

The starter is direct drive with no clutches,the clutch is at the end of the chain in a poorly lubricated area.Just a side note.I rebuilt a 83 gl1000i and forgot to check the starter clutch.It was sticking,It didn't whine like yours but it was terribly noisy.I heard the noise at the clutch bucket area which is right near the stator.The back side of the stator assembly is the clutch.I ran a full bottle of MMO for 25 miles before it settled down.Virgil

thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:54 am

Thanks for all the ideas. I will start eliminating possibilities today. When i had the back cover off a couple of weeks ago the only thing I mpdified was to put the missing washer on the back of the alternator rotor. I wonder if I did something wrong there. We'll see what happens today.

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Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:30 am

virgilmobile wrote:The starter is direct drive with no clutches,the clutch is at the end of the chain in a poorly lubricated area.Just a side note.I rebuilt a 83 gl1000i and forgot to check the starter clutch.It was sticking,It didn't whine like yours but it was terribly noisy.I heard the noise at the clutch bucket area which is right near the stator.The back side of the stator assembly is the clutch.I ran a full bottle of MMO for 25 miles before it settled down.Virgil


Good point. If one or more of the sprags was not retracted on the starter clutch, it could be making a lot of noise that could be a whine.

thomascomcast
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1983 gl1100

Re: 1983 GL1100a Engine whine

Postby thomascomcast » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:13 pm

I have another starter from my spare engine. I guess I should swap the starters before I pull the engine. I pulled the clutches off this morning, using up most of my 4 letter words, and found nothing wrong with the clutch plates. I started the engine without the clutch pusher setup that gets depressed when you pull the clutch lever and it made no difference in the whine so the little bearing that the clutch lever pushes is ok. Since the noise persists when the bike is in neutral and whether or not I pull n the clutch lever, I can assume there is nothing wrong with the drive shat and gears. My next plan after changing the starter is to pull the engine and check everything behing the back engine cover, especially the alternator stuff since that is the only part back there I fooled with. If nothing seems wrong I can think of nothing else to do but split the engine and look for screwups I made when I split it last time and took out a cupfull of gear teeth and replaced the crank and main chain.




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