Rebuild Decision Point


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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lowmanj
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Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:21 pm



I'm new to the site. It is awesome, and the responses I've read are more useful than any manuals I own.

Situation; My 81 GW Interstate was in storage for 6 years while I was overseas. I did little to prepare it for storage, and what I did do was wrong (I now know from reading your posts). I am breaking it down in the garage pretty far, and planning to make it road ready and safe again from wheels up. Looking at the investment, though it's way less than getting another bike, I must decide if it's worthy of the effort and money.

Major issue so far: Transmission seems to miss top gears. It shafts down to 1st, up to neutral, up to 2nd and up to 3rd. That's it. Is it possible the transmission, shifter, clutch or cables are poorly adjusted? Is this a sign that rebuild must include transmission work while it's broken down to parts? Is transmission available apart from engine, or are they sold together?

Thanks very much, and Happy New Year!



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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:02 pm

It could be any number of things. I'd first change the oil, pour half a can of Seafoam in the oil, run it for a good 15 or 20 minutes to clear out the sludge, and then change the oil again.

You can remove the front engine cover as shown in this thread, starting at step 67...inside you can see the shift mechanism:

Image

Watch that while shifting up and down, and if there is a problem with the shift linkage, it will be pretty apparent.

The transmission is an integral part of the engine, and while the gears can be removed and replaced, you have to open the entire engine to do it.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby RBGERSON » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:25 am

I agree with WA..but I'd just drain a quart of old oil put in a quart of Diesel and then run for 10 minutes to temp even drive it around easy..now drain and put in new oil and filter..just a cheaper way to try and clean out the old slug..driving it helps move stuff around..just go easy keep RPM's under 4,000

Note if the shifting worked before you put her up it should still be the same unless some one was jumping on the shifter playing around like KIDS??? As to why it's not shifting if just not slug..wore dogs or gears or fouled up shift linage. If that's the case(dogs or gears) it would be cheaper and easier to find a replacement engine unless you really enjoy breaking engines apart. Finding "new" gears may be tough they do come on eBay every so often..but hard say what shape they are really in. I am fairly sure Honda discontinued new parts for the transmissions some time ago..even if you could find some it could cost you well over $1000 to buy a complete set.
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

lowmanj
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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:37 pm

Thanks very much for your attention and time. The responses are very helpful. Including the snapshot of the gear shifter was invaluable, given my mechanical knowledge.
I’ll check the shifter inside the engine cover as advised. That may well be the issue. My rear brake pedal was frozen. Generous application of WD-40 and much back and forth movement resolved it. Very possible that occurred at the shifter mechanism too.
Running the engine is not possible yet. I’m going to get a new battery today, some sea foam, and any product I can find that will de-scale, un-rust the inside of the fuel tank.
Do you have any tips on best way to clean inside gas tank? With the fuel level indicator float removed I have fair access to it. I’m thinking lots of WD-40 and toilet brush and wire brush.
Besides bad fuel, dirty and rusty tank, the throttle cables are also stuck. I lubed the carburetor end of the cables. Still stuck. I’ll remove the throttle handle end now and see if that froze from lack of movement or rust.
My Dad always used the diesel- in- the- oil trick at each oil change. I know it works too.
Thanks again, and Happy New Year.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:15 pm

The rear brake pivot is well-known problem area when it comes to corrosion. You might want to remove the pedal, take some fine sandpaper to clean all the corrosion up, lube liberally with grease, and reinstall, or you might find you'll have it seized again next year.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:33 pm

I'll do that with the brake pedal. Corrosion is visible, so you're on the money with that.
I'm charging up a new battery right now. Before I can run the engine to use the sea foam in the oil, I have to get some clean gas. Any tips on cleaning the inside of the tank? I have sea-foam and gum-out, but there is much rust- corrosion clinging to the inside.
Thanks much.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:07 pm

There are quite a few different ways of cleaning the tank of corrosion, but a lot of them involve removing the tank - and that is really a nasty task that involves a LOT of bike disassembly.

The best way of doing it without removing the tank, I think, is using electrolysis and a sacrificial anode. There are quite a few descriptions of this process on the web, I googled and found this one: Electrolysis of motorcycle gas tank

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:05 am

Thanks very much! I'd never seen that procedure. I will certainly give it a go. I removed the 6 and 1/2 year old fuel tonight and the rust at the bottom is thick. With the fuel out, I sprayed it down real well with liquid wrench and WD-40. I'll see how well a shop vac does on the rust in the bottom. But with the inlet screens so clogged, I will do the electrolysis and let you know how it came out. It does look like I can do it with the tank still in.
Once I have a clean fuel supply, I can procede to try the sea foam in the oil, with liquid wrench inside the cylinders. With any luck the missing 4th and 5th gears can be restored.
Thanks again for the timely and very helpful response.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby thrasherg » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:29 pm

If you are trying to change gear without the engine running it is very lilkely that you have nothing wrong with your gearbox.. Most gearboxes will not go through all the gears if the engine is not running. The lay shafts need to be spinning for the dogs and teeth to engage correctly and allow the next gear to be selected. You might want to try rotating the back wheel (backwards and forwards) whilst lifting the gear lever to see if it will engage 4th and higher.. Just rock the back wheel backwards and forwards as far as you can turn it and have someone else lift the gear pedal at the same time and see if it will engage the higher gears. If it does then you don't have a problem, but you will probably need to rock the back wheel again to get the gearbox to go all the way back down to neutral!!

Gary
Last edited by thrasherg on Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

lowmanj
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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:35 pm

Thanks. I hope that is the case and I'll see those top gears reappear.
I had success with the fuel tank, following your good advice. I used the vinegar trick for a couple days and saw a huge inprovement, but still not clean enough. I followed up with the electrolysis and now have a cleaner tank than ever before.
Now I'm trying to get it running for 15 minutes to cycle oil and sea foam in the engine. It turns over with starter fluid in the carb, for 1-2 seconds at a pop. Good to hear the rumble after so many years.
No doubt I will rebuild carbs, but I really need to see it idle for a few minutes first.
I know I have clean fuel from the tank, through a new filter and into the fuel pump. Beyond that I just hope the mystery oil and sea foam in the fuel can break through the carb varnish enough to run for a few minutes, even if roughly.
Any pointers on that?
Thanks again.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:05 pm

You could manually drain the carb float chambers, then fill them with straight Seafoam and let it sit for a day. Then crank that through and let the fresh gas come in behind it. Keep in mind not to crank too long at a time, the starter will overheat and fail, which you do not want to happen!

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:04 am

Now that's a good idea! Thanks. I'll look over the how-to section and see where to drain and fill float bowls.
Can I reach them whith the carb bank still on the engine?
I'm taking care with the starter too.
Thanks again.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:00 pm

There are screws that can be removed on each carb (in place) that drain the float bowls. To fill, just open the petcock on a full tank and let gravity do its thing...or turn the ignition off and crank the engine (with the petcock open) for a few seconds.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:09 pm

WingAdmin wrote:It could be any number of things. I'd first change the oil, pour half a can of Seafoam in the oil, run it for a good 15 or 20 minutes to clear out the sludge, and then change the oil again.

You can remove the front engine cover as shown in this thread, starting at step 67...inside you can see the shift mechanism:

Image

Watch that while shifting up and down, and if there is a problem with the shift linkage, it will be pretty apparent.

The transmission is an integral part of the engine, and while the gears can be removed and replaced, you have to open the entire engine to do it.

Sir , you have the best photo's the quality is great, what kinda carmera?

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:44 pm

littlebeaver wrote:Sir , you have the best photo's the quality is great, what kinda carmera?


It's an old Sony DSC-W70:



I've had it for quite a few years. It's a 7.2 megapixel camera, which is good for low light (the more megapixels, the less sensitive it is). It's got a Carl Zeiss lens built into it, and the macro mode (which I use for almost all the pictures) is excellent, as is the flash. I use it with no other lighting to take all the pictures on this site.

I have a much newer and more expensive camera that is my everyday camera, so this Sony is relegated to taking pictures just of motorcycle parts. Mainly, it's fairly old, and I don't mind if I get greasy fingerprints all over it while taking pictures during some repair job. :)

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:55 pm

Man I should have asked this question before x-mas, my wife and kid's got me a vivitar and I'm greatful as it takes video's don't get me wrong but it doesn't have a flash and I like a camera with a flash.. So I either get a swivel for my trailer or a sony camera...hummm..I gotta sleep on that one.. :lol: thank's for the prompt response..

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:15 pm

I doubt you could still find that Sony - it's years old.

My current everyday camera is a Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 and it is a FANTASTIC camera.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:54 am

Thanks. Did just that. Last night the engine was just starting to catch, or at least react to throttle, beyond the starter fluid burst, for a second or two. I trust the sea foam will have loosened it up more after sitting overnight and today. The fuel, if you can call it that, that ran out from the float chamber drain was UGLY. I am set for the carb rebuild challenge if I can get it to at least idle for a few minutes.
Raddaks site advised to change oil and filter before running engine the first time. Do you still recommend adding the 1/2 can of sea foam to old oil. Oil was added fresh before storage, but that was late 2004. Dipstick oil looks brand new.
By the way, Advance Auto sells sea foam in a spray can, with extra long straw to reach as far in as needed. Pretty handy.
I concur on your photo quality. Those are the most helpful.
Thanks

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:57 pm

If the fuel in the carbs was nasty, then I'd manually drain out the Seafoam after it's sat, rather than running it through the engine.

You won't hurt anything by putting Seafoam in the crankcase, but it's more to loosen sludge that's built up from running. It wouldn't be a bad idea to change the oil however, if it's sat that long.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:38 pm

Thanks very much. I'll drain it this evening and see what surprises come out.
Does the straight sea foam bust up sludge as well as carb cleaner? Sounds like it.
I'll put new oil in for that first running too. I am hopeful I can get that far with all the help I've gotten here.
Thank you.

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Carb or Frankenstein!

Postby lowmanj » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:21 pm

The float bowl- carb cleaning trick worked well enough to bring it to life after a 7 year sleep. I idled it 20 minutes or so with sea foam in oil. It stalled at low RPM, so I kept it aboved 2k the whole time.

Concerning is this: At the end of the long idle, with the motor off and the oil and sludge draining, the carburator was beathing and gasping. I could hear it breathing in and out! Also, the gasoline was running inside the carb. There was so much that I could actually see it inside the plenum area bubbling. I shut off the fuel **** at that point. Frankenstein eventually stopped gasping and circulating gas on its own. Is this dangerous? Or is it a result of the long sleep?

Today I replaced the vacuum hose, as it was deteriorated preety far. That might help. I also put in the new plugs and changed gear oil.

With new oil and filter again, I'll try to run it tonight with radiator flush. I'll also try adjusting the idle speed and see if it can idle on its own.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:56 pm

Could be stuck floats, letting fuel continue to flow into the cylinders after the engine was shut off. If you turn the petcock off, does the fuel gurgling stop?

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby imfree » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:28 am

It is VERY likely that your engine is not going to idel until you replace the air shutoff valves,I would also replace the accelarator pump,These items do NOT come with the carb kits.

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:36 pm

Yes, it did stop when I shut off fuel valve. I ran it twice since, and thankfully had no recurrance of the gurgling and fuel bubbling.
Not sure what air shut offs are or where. Is it something I could accomplish at home, with how-to tips, helpful info from you guys, and basic craftsman tool sets?

No doubt carbs will be rebuilt. With all I've read here, I feel like I can do it. I found a place who'll do it for 400 starting price, if I pull the carb bank and mail it to Texas. Looks like they do good work, but I'm concerned how much more it'll be beyond starting price. It seems like I could do a good enough job with 250 in parts or so.
Your thoughts?
Thanks

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Re: Rebuild Decision Point

Postby lowmanj » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:34 pm

Just wanted to confirm your earlier diagnosis. Both, air cut off and the accelerator pump were UGLY. Tore down the carbs and the rubber diaphram in the accelerator pump was stuck on the metal housing. I had to peel it off. The two air cut offs I pulled so far were in varied states of disentigration.
You were spot on- sight unseen.
Thanks
Jesse




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