Carb Rebuild Questions


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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idjit
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Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:37 am



I'm in the proccess of cleaning #2 and #4 on my 1980 gl1100.

There are 3 towers grouped together in the float bowl. One is the main jet, another is the slow jet and the third is not mentioned anywhere I've looked. However, the third seems to be drilled towards an obvious hole under the plastic air jet cover (the plastic thing with the tip that fits the groove on the slider that's held in with one screw.) This third tower is plugged on all four carbs and looks like it has a purpose. Question, is it intentionally plugged? I don't want to force an intentional factory plug out. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to have this third tower and a hole slant drilled and it being plugged, but not mention in any cleaning procedures.
BTW, So far I've found no "screens" that I've heard mentioned in forums. Were they not in the 1980's. I assumed it would be just before the float pin's, but... nutt'in. Maybe there's a screen on #3. I'll go there after I finish #2 and #4.

I've been running lean on three carbs, and other than dirty idle jets and a missing o-ring on a air cutoff, I've found nothing except that the floats are really high, which should be making it rich, not lean. Anything particular in the carbs I might be missing? I'm thinking the third tower, but like I said I don't want to attack something without knowing what it is. Sliders not sticking at all.

I'll also be going at the tank and it's screen, new hoses and filter and the pump.Thanks!! -Bob



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MJSantos
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby MJSantos » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:16 pm

The third towwr is blocked. It sounds like the carbs have been opened in the past if there was a missing o-ring. Might explain why the screens are missing. Here a linke to a very good rebuild with pictures you'll probebly have to register but it's well worth it. Part#23 is the screens we are talking about.
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idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:35 pm

Thanks!!,

Yup, Here's what I've discovered: 3rd is intentionally blocked. Not used in the goldwing because it has the pump and my float valves and needles might not be OEM.

Is it possible someone simply removed the screens? Would that raise the float level considerably? I can't see in the picture, but I'm thinking there might be some thickness under the soft washer and the carb. It wouldn't have to be much to make a big difference in float level. Maybe they removed them and didn't attempt to adjust which would explain why they are so high.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:50 pm

removing the screens will not raise the fuel level but a missing washer (part 22)will(to some degree) I recall the washer is about .010'' thick.missing screens allow fine debris into the bowl and then into fuel passages(bad).Rebuilding carbs takes time.Each fuel passage must be verified clean,including the ones right at the throttle(3 or 4 holes at the bottom where the throttle valve meets the throat)behind the idle port.These are for off idle acceleration.

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MJSantos
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby MJSantos » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:54 pm

If those screens are missing you have no defense for garbage getting to the jets. The only possible suggestions would be to install a second fuel filer between the fuel pump and the #3 carb. The second more expensive alternative would be to buy OEM Float Valve rebuild kits, I looked them up at Action Motor Sports and they run $47.00 each. The third would be to find a set of carbs off Ebay or Craigs just for parts. Make sure you run fuel through that pump just to be sure it's clean.

idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:47 pm

I like this second filter idea. Funny thing is the bike was lean and these float valves are so out of adjustment that I'm surprised the intake was even closing on any of them. This bike should have been running rich. I don't think the float valves and seats are OEM and probably not as tall, but I should be able to get the proper float level. Perhaps the dirt in the carbs countered the high float levels.

indianakid
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby indianakid » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:46 pm

Hi idjit,
Here is a presentation that I put together that may help with what all the passages in the carb are doing and confirm that the “third tower” is not used. In your first post you state that the floats were “high”. You wouldn’t happen to have measured what they were set at? 15.5 +/-.5mm is the stock setting. If the floats were high giving you a rich condition the measurement should be less than 15mm. If the floats were low giving you a lean condition the measurement would be greater than 16mm. Also what are the symptoms that leads you to the conclusion that 3 were lean?
Thanks,
indianakid
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idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:48 am

WOW! Great pics -Thanks. Of course no one should removing the plugs. That was for illustration purposes only, right?

Lean because white plugs, blue pipes, when I start the bike I have to keep the choke knob so the revs are above 2000 rpm or it backfires and the occassionl "ping" when I accelerate at higher speeds, till fully warm. I think the backfire is on the right side which is the two carbs I prepared for cleaning last night. I expect to find plugged idle transfer holes (or the route to them).

This bike ran quite well when I got it, but plugs where quite white back then too. I seafoamed it and I intend to check the tank (and tank screen), replace furl lines and filter . I've had the pump apart and it looks good, but last resort might be to have it checked at the dealer as I don't have a tool for that. Actually, "Canadian Tire" has a tool loan program...

The floats at 15.5 should be about parallel. All four floats are almost touching the body when they contact the plungers in the float valves. I didn't even measure yet because they are so off. If they were any closer they'd hit the base before the valves closed. Like I say, it must be plugged up somewhere good to be lean.

Love these pics. I might have a second look at #2 and #4. I already have reassembled them to the plenum half, but I should be able to do minimal tear down to use water and air to check.

So far I've fount a missing "O" ring on on air cut-off and 2 of them put in flat side up, a half "O" ring on one of the pilot screws and all for of them about 3 turns out, which is close to the starting point on the later models. The 1980 is 1-1/4 turns. Howard Halasz (author of "Honda GL1100 Gold Wing Carburetor Repair Guide, which is available through Randakk's) thinks the fact that my screens are missing and the float seat is so high makes him think someone might have replaced the float valves and seats with something other than OEM. I'm thinking the assembly is shorter and they didn't adjust to compensate.

THANKS!!

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virgilmobile
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:07 am

I've got a junk carb assembly.You can have any pieces you need before i trash them.They are oxidized badly,but the screens and valve seat should be OK.I'm not sure i can get the jets out.They were full of water and left outside for many years.Virgil

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MJSantos
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby MJSantos » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:33 am

virgilmobile wrote:I've got a junk carb assembly.You can have any pieces you need before i trash them.They are oxidized badly,but the screens and valve seat should be OK.I'm not sure i can get the jets out.They were full of water and left outside for many years.Virgil

If the floats are still good I could use a couple.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:16 pm

I'll knock them apart tonight,Do you need the screens and washer under the valve seat?I can strip everything I can for salvage.Virgil

idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:52 pm

I'd love to have those screens, float valves and seats if they all look good. I'm in Canada though. If you have a paypal account I could make a contribution.

I don't need the floats, so this is good for MJSantos too. You're a real crowd pleaser!! -Bob (idjit)

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virgilmobile
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:23 pm

Let me see what kind of care package I can come up with tonight.I'll list it in the morning.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:08 pm

Here a picture of what I could savage,pick what you need,I'll mail it.Understand that they are not cleaned,polished or any less than 28 years old,but the price is right.Virgil
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idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:08 am

Yes, that little group of float valve parts on the upper right.

Screen, seat and valve... all 4 sets

How do we do this?

bob"at"bobandmaggie.com

Thank's a plenty!!

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virgilmobile
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:29 am

E-Mail on it's way,I also have a thought about floats.I'll send a new post about them.

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MJSantos
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby MJSantos » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:13 pm

virgilmobile wrote:E-Mail on it's way,I also have a thought about floats.I'll send a new post about them.

PM Sent

reggiefavre
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby reggiefavre » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:43 pm

I am so glad I found this GL site. I have been having problems with #4 carb. The pictures will help a lot. I have been wondering what the third post was for. I am just about ready to install a single carb on this thing.
Thanks again for the pictures. Maybe I can get it fixed now.
Reg

idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:23 am

On the 3rd post I was asking about the missing screens. I thought perhaps they had some sort of flange that would affect the float levels if they were simply removed. Not the case. They press fit to the float seat below.

The pictures that others provided were very important for me in knowing what passages needed to be cleaned and which were blocked intentionally.
I've got mine together now. I can't get air screw on #4 to drop the idle speed. I think perhaps cause I need to sync carbs and try again. Might be that it's so far out of sync that its not doing anything.

idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:25 am

BTW single carb? Where do you get those? Do they perform well?

idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:28 am

One more think. Are you sure its not electrical? Check you plug boot. Look at in the dark. Spray it with a mist of water....

idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:36 pm

Well here I am with my carbs all cleaned and reinstalled with a randakk kit. Number 4 seems lean. it backfired at cold startup so I turned out the idle mixture screw a couple of turns more than what seems reasonable to stop that. Then, after warmed, I adjusted the idle mix on 1,2+3, but I can't get the idle drop on #4. I checked the intake "O" ring.. Also synced the carbs and tried again. With the sync adapter cap (adapter for vacuum gauge) removed I get the odd little puff of what looks like a pencil flame shooting out of it. If I screwed the mix out much further I'd be afraid it might fall out. I have constant spark here. I'm sure I got those float levels exact.

Does anyone have any ideas before I tear this apart again? I'd probably not have to totaly dismantle, but those throttle cables are a real pain.

Thanks Bob.

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MJSantos
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby MJSantos » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:45 pm

A possibility for the puff your seeing is that the intake valve is not closing all the way when you get to the power stroke. Might want to check this. I ran into it with the project bike just tonight. A lot easier to take the cover off before you have to go after the carbs again. Also what alot of us have done is route the cables around the outside of the frame then into the throttle crank. You can pull the carbs out the left and get to the clamp nuts a whole lot easier.

idjit
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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby idjit » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:02 pm

What would I do if that valve is sticking? Clean the valve stem with something? Would this explain why the mixture seems undoable? I like this cable routing idea. Thanks!!

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Re: Carb Rebuild Questions

Postby MJSantos » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:13 pm

Might want to try some SeaFoam or Marvel Mystery oil in the crankcase. Normally a sticky valve is hanging in such a way that the only way to clean it is to pull the head. It could also be carbon buildup on the valve and seat run some SeaFoam in the gas. Before you go through all of that take a compression check. Hung valves would show low reading and also erratic vacum readings. One thing that I have experienced is anytime you mess with carbs it takes a little while for the engine to settle down. I've had excess smoke come out from a bank after syncing then it goes away. Not sure if the engine is saying thankyou or leave me alone.




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