81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine


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davmaj2
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81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby davmaj2 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:24 pm



My 81 GL1100 Interstate has oil pooling on top of engine. It is doing it on both sides.
I do not see it leaking anywhere.
I can clean it off run around the block and the oil is back.
I do not have any oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil.
I also have lots of white smoke coming from both exhaust pipes.
Compression is good on all 4 cylinders.
Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this.


1981 GL1100 Interstate

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:26 pm

Is the crankcase overfilled with oil, by any chance?

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:30 pm

Perhap's it could be leaking out of the timing cap , where you look in to see the crank....Have a look at the o-ring..
Last edited by littlebeaver on Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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davmaj2
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby davmaj2 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:41 pm

No WingAdmin, the oil level is fine, that was the first thing that I checked.
Littlebeaver when I put new timing belts on two months ago, I replaced the o-ring on the timing cap.
After doing the compression check, I removed the carbs to get a better look at things.
I just do not see anything leaking.
Thanks for the input though.

This is not my engine, just wanted to show where the oil is on mine.
This is not my engine, just wanted to show where the oil is on mine.
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littlebeaver
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:54 pm

If it's not leaking out of that cap then I don't know, someone around here probably will though..Hang in there..I'd dry it all up really well and watch for where it's coming from with two people one on each side of the bike.. use some good lights so you can see it well..

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby N2PPN » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:11 pm

Hi,
Just a stupid question.... How would you describe the oil that is collecting?? is it brown and dirty,thick, thin, or clean and light colored?? Since there are no oil passages or exterior engine oil galleys ABOVE the block in the areas you put an X on in the picture, I was wondering if the oil was old and dirty looking if it might be coming from your air cleaner??

Possibly crankcase breather is letting a little too much oil mist and or water vapor from cold engine oil into the air cleaner and the drain pathways to the collection bottle are clogged/blocked and the excess oily stuff is running out of the air cleaner and collecting on the top of the block halves??


Just as I said a stupid question, but I had to ask...


Rich
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davmaj2
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby davmaj2 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:24 pm

N2PPN, it's definately not a stupid question.
The oil looks new, which it is. Changed it 2 months ago and have only put 16 miles on the bike since.
I have pulled the air cleaner out and there is not any oil on the filter or in/on the housing.
Like you said there are not any oil passages or exterior engine oil galleys where the oil is collecting.
I'm sure it's something very simple that I have overlooked (atleast I hope that is the case).
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby N2PPN » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:30 pm

Next suggestion I have is to add ultra violet dye to your engine oil, then after the oil pools on the block, examine it with a UV light and see if it is indeed engine oil finding it's way up top... the dye will also help you to locate the source as it will leave a very noticeable trail to follow with the UV light.. you can even run the engine with the dye in it and just sit there in the dark with your UV light looking for the dye to show up...

Either way that will definitely pinpoint the source....

Excessive, yes... but effective too.

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby davmaj2 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:39 pm

Thanks for the tip Rich.
I'll have to pick up some dye and try that tomorrow.
Yes it seems excessive but well worth it if it helps me solve this mystery.
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby N2PPN » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:43 pm

Definitely want to know where it is coming from, so post back and let us know... Try to take a picture with the UV light on the source...

Found this stuff online... maybe it'll be useful?

http://www.tracerline.com/faq.html

Good luck..


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davmaj2
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby davmaj2 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:47 pm

I sure will let everyone know what I find.
Thanks again.
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby dingdong » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:26 am

I can't come up with anything that is up there that can leak oil. Except the head gaskets but that should be easy to spot. Sorry for this question! Are you sure it is oil and not coolant or fuel? White smoke indicates either a coolant leak or excessive fuel in the carbs overflowing into the cylinder.
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:10 am

The only pressurized source of oil common to both sides that high up on the engine is a double 'O' ring sealed tube between the block and head.This oil tube can be mistaken for a guide pin and be left out.If the heads have been removed and the tubes left out or missing the 'O' ring , the head gasket by itself will not hold back 40psi of oil pressure and it will seep out of the top center of the head.This would only show up with running the engine at a higher rpm(more pressure)as the idle pressure is only 10-15 psi.See the picture.
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:26 pm

N2PPN wrote:Possibly crankcase breather is letting a little too much oil mist and or water vapor from cold engine oil into the air cleaner and the drain pathways to the collection bottle are clogged/blocked and the excess oily stuff is running out of the air cleaner and collecting on the top of the block halves??


That's the thought I had, it would be easy to check - pull the air filter out and check for an oily mess.

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:21 pm

With all respect, the man said he did that already and it was dry and clean.. :D

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:39 pm

littlebeaver wrote:With all respect, the man said he did that already and it was dry and clean.. :D


oops, you're right, I missed that one.

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davmaj2
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby davmaj2 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:10 pm

Alright, I used the dye today and found no leaks.
I even went as far as to use tarps and make a tent over the bike so it would be totally dark.
I had 3 other people check it out too, one being a bike mechanic from across the street, and we couldn't find anything.
I think I will just pull both heads this weekend.
I will get the surfaces machined while they are off, so I know they are perfectly level.
Hopefully new gaskets and making sure the double o-ringed sealed tube between the head and block has new o-rings on it will fix the problem.
I am going to put new valve stem seals in it also, hopefully that is what was causing the smoking problem.
By the middle of next week I should have it back together, have to wait for Honda to get the parts in.
I will let everyone know what happens.
Thanks again for all the suggestions.
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby N2PPN » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:22 pm

When you used the dye, did you still get the pooling?? or has that failed to reappear??

If the blue/white smoke is present all the time when the engine is both under load and "coasting" it might not be valve guides... valve guides usually "suck oil" when worn under high vacuum conditions like deceleration with the throttle closed... the high vacuum pulls oil past the valve guides and into the combustion chamber.... bad or worn piston oil rings will smoke all the time and more when under load during acceleration all while not necessarily lowering compression...

Laboratory testing the engine oil will show high amounts of hydrocarbons dissolved in the engine oil and indicate oil ring/valve guide blowby and bypass..testing can also pinpoint other impending failures by the trace metals or other things detected in the oil from things like bearings, seals, bushings, etc.

I am sure that you will be able to cure the symptoms and find the cause... please keep us posted??


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davmaj2
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby davmaj2 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:34 pm

No there was no pooling, but I did not ride it either.
We let it sit there at a at a higher idle than normal and goosed the throttle every now and then.
It smoked when it was cold, when it warmed up it only smoked on deceleration.
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby cpawilly » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:52 am

Mine smokes on the RT side when cold. I am assuming it is valve guides and when the head heads up and the metal expands they seal up and the smoking stops. Looks like new guides for me next winter

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:57 am

Laboratory testing..... :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: Oh my....Laboratory testing..Really... :lol:

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby N2PPN » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:41 pm

Yeah Laboratory testing....

Fleet mechanics use it all the time to keep on top of things... not as "exotic" as you might think.

I assume you go to a doctor for a yearly physical don't you?
The doctor orders blood work to see how your "engine" is doing, so why not do it for your bike??

Unless 25 bucks for the oil test is out of your budget??

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:15 pm

:o :o :lol: :geek:

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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby Old Fogey » Sun May 01, 2011 7:40 am

If you look at your picture, just below the water tubes you will see a long hump in the top of the crankcase half, which continues over to the other half. That is a pressurised oil passageway. The two halves of the passageway are joined by a metal ferrule with an O ring sealing it. This is about the only place that oil can get to both sides of the top of the cases at the same time.
Trust me, I know; I built up an engine without the O ring and that's what happened.
Unfortunately, it's an engine out job to fix. It doesn't need to be stripped right down; just enough to get the cases apart by about 3/4"
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Re: 81 GL1100 oil pooling on top of engine

Postby RoadRogue » Tue May 03, 2011 9:46 pm

just to add my random thought to the picture, if you cant get oil pooling when you run the bike without riding it, maybe it is blowing up from a lower and more forward location when you do ride it. The dye in the oil should show where it starts its journey from.
Just a thought I had the other day when riding home from work.


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