coolant temperature


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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gdpreslar
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coolant temperature

Postby gdpreslar » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:57 pm



would like to know what is the proper engine coolant temperature for a gl1100. with a mechanical gauge hooked up , temp is running 200 to 210 on the road, 80 deg. day. thanks



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RoadRogue
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby RoadRogue » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:11 pm

That sounds about right
Ride safe, Todd
Over night campers welcome

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virgilmobile
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:55 am

That sounds OK for my 09 Silverado..
My 83 1100 operates around 185.

Contrary to popular belief a thermostat is required to cool an engine by regulating coolant flow through the radiator,allowing it to cool before returning to the engine.It also facilitated faster warm up.

DON'T ELIMINATE THE THERMOSTAT.

Here's the book specs.
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eklimek
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby eklimek » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:46 am

virgilmobile

Tell me what you just said in a different way. You are usually correct and I simply don't understand.

The theromostat impedes return of the coolant from the radiator - yes.
The engine coolant also impedes exit from engine to the radiator - yes.

The engine requires a thermostat to cool the engine - only in the sense that it takes an unobstructed pathway to function.
The radiator temperature is higher with a thermostat - no, not at equilibrium.

Deleting the thermostat allows pump to circulate coolant and the equilibrium temperature(s) of all parts would be determined solely by generation vs loss. My model T has no water pump and circulates by convection.

What am I missing?

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virgilmobile
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:43 am

Your model "T" cools by thermo-siphoning.More heat,more flow. Also compare the size of the radiator to the horsepower.
With the new engines,high horsepower,smaller design,thinner metals and rapid temperature changes, came about a pressurized,water pump circulated system.

The problem was that as a engine ran and temps rise,the water would heat up faster than the radiator could dissipate it.A flow restriction was placed in-line to slow the water to give it more time in the radiator to cool before passing it to the engine.

A engine With no thermostat cruising at 70 in 90 degree heat will slowly increase in temperature until it reaches it's boiling point (under pressure) at near 210 degrees.This could be eliminated by adding a much larger radiator.The radiators can dissipate only a specific BTU and the engine will generate more than it can handle in open flow mode.In cool weather,BTU exchange in the radiator is much more efficient.

It's one of those engineering design ideas.Make it smaller and cheaper but add this part to make it work.

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eklimek
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby eklimek » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:42 am

No. Still don't get it.

"The radiators can dissipate only a specific BTU and the engine will generate more than it can handle in open flow mode."

Why does obstructed flow dissipate more heat?

RexAubrey
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby RexAubrey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:47 am

obstructed flow can disipate more heat by keeping the fluid in the cooling chamber (radiator) for a longer period of time. when reintroduced to the engine it is cooler unitl it again exits the engine and enters the radiator. un-obstructed flow just keep traveling into the engine then the radiator and back into the engine before it has time to cool enough to keep it from reaching a higher temp when traveling back through the engine and then entering the radiator again. This continued state of reaching higher and higher temps causes overheating in the un-obstructed flow situation.
Rex
1983 GoldWing Interstate, 1982 GoldWing Aspencade, 1981 Yamaha 550 Maxim, 1979 Yamaha 650 Special

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eklimek
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby eklimek » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:31 pm

obstructed flow can disipate more heat by keeping the fluid in the cooling chamber (radiator) for a longer period of time.


I think we may be on different aspects of a closed system. It may be the case that the radiator will be hotter and disspate more heat if the circulation is slowed. I think that neglects the closed system and is not the question of the role of the theromostat, to heat up the radiator.

In a liquid-to-air heat exchanger heat transfer to/from the radiator is directly proportional to the coolant mass flow and the average temperature difference between the coolant and the air.

But as the coolant flows faster through the radiator the temperature of the return fluid increases, but the total heat transfer is unaffected (up to the design limit of the radiator).

When the coolant flows faster through the system, the temperature difference of the coolant as it moves through the engine also decreases. Thus as coolant flow increases the radiator outlet temperature increases while the engine outlet temperature decreases. The purpose of the thermostat is to slow the circulation sto allow the engine temperature ( actually coolant temperature) to increase.

Removing the thermostat result in maximum system cooling, until cavitation develps in the water pump or at the water pump inlet. If cavitation occurs vapor bubbles will be introduced into the coolant and the heat transfer will be severely degraded.

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virgilmobile
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:06 pm

Here's a topic of interest to some.Perhaps it explains the nuances of thermal dynamics better than I did.

But the last word is simple...Keep it OEM and it will run OEM. Ya start jacking with the engineering design and expect nothing to happen?

http://www.oldspower.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21070

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eklimek
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby eklimek » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:40 pm

Thanks virgilemobile - looks like this ihas been beaten up on many other sites.

It apears there is an argument for maintaining the thermomostat as a restrictor plate thereby increasing pressure within the block to raise the boiling point of the coolant. That may not be possible unless one ignores that fact that fluids are incompressible and it is impossible to raise the pressure focally. The pump moves molecules, not intermolecular distance. One might suggest raising the pressure in the cooiling system, changing the BP of the coolant and moving the coolant faster would be more effective. Which takes me back to where we started.

It appears there are many good things to say about maintaining engine (coolant) at operating temperature with a properly functioning thermostat. It does not however change the efficiency of the coooing system.

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virgilmobile
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:51 pm

Efficiency change?..no..but within design specs.Otherwise were re-engineering the bikes cooling system.

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RoadRogue
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby RoadRogue » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:52 am

interesting reading you two discuss the purpose of the thermostat, but that wasnt the question asked. gdpreslar wanted to know at what temp our bikes ran.

I agree that the thermostat is a required component of the cooling system, if you are running a 185 degree thermostat that doesnt mean the coolant temp will be around 185 . I does mean that the thermostat opens and starts flowing coolant at or near 185 degrees. It stays closed till that temp to allow the engine too warm up to proper operating temp faster.
There is no reason the coolant temp would stay around 185 unless it was a cool day,in a pressure system the temp water boils at is increased above the normal 212*F (at sea level).

Your fan should come on at 208-216 degrees and turn off at 199-207 degrees. According to the stock temp guage on my 82, on a 80* day @ 60mph it shows a little less than half on the guage scale.In town with less airflow ( slow traffic,long lights etc.)it reads higher and the fan comes on once in a while.
It might be time to flush the cooling system or check on your thermostat and water pump if you are worried about it. Then you will know for sure all is well.
Ride safe, Todd
Over night campers welcome

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eklimek
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Re: coolant temperature

Postby eklimek » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:59 am

As the manual photo indicates the thermostat is fully open at 194 F. The equilibrium steady state operating (coolant) temperature is a function of heat dissipation/generation.

Has anyone ever put an oil temperature gauge on?




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