I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200


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tombyers
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I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby tombyers » Sat May 12, 2012 9:33 pm



My last forum post was about my low vacuum reading on my number four carb. So I took off the carburetor assembly and replaced the o rings and cleaned the carberators including resetting the pilot screws to the recommended 3 1/2 turns. I put it together and started it and test drove it. It ran but needed adjustment. I had not yet synchronized the carburetors or did the recommended pilot screw idle adjustment. I hooked up the vacuum gauge and the #4 carb read 50 and the #3 35 and the #1 20 on the vacuum guage. I couldn't fix it with the synchronizing screws and thought I would have to try to do the recommended adjustment to the pilot screws since the idle was erratic. Then I was just getting ready to stop for the evening when a plume of smoke came out of the motorcycle. I turned it off and looked and it was the connection of the three yellow wires coming from the stator. The connection plug was melted and one wire looked ok but the other two were badly toasted. I don't know if my stator is still any good or not? The two bad wires look like they need replaced but cannot access the whole wires as they go between the frame and engine. I am not sure if I am up for the job of pulling the engine out of the frame and trying to repair or replace the wires and stator.



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HALBUDD
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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby HALBUDD » Sat May 12, 2012 11:25 pm

First look at the three yellow wires if they are just toasted at the plastic plug and not all the way up,cut the plug off. Then get your DVM and check the three wires going down to the stater for any grounds. There should be no grounds on these wires, then very carefully strip the three wires at the ends and keep them clear of each other and any other parts of the bike. Put your DVM set to read A.C. volts and start your bike you should be reading around 70 volts a.c. on each wire. If this reads good then solider the three wires one on one ( does not make any difference which one goes to as long as you have three coming from the stater and three going to your regulator. make sure to put heat shrink on before you solider them up to insulate them good from each other. After you have done this start your bike and put your DVM on you neg and pos of your battery you should be getting around 12 volts rev you bike to around 3000 rpms the voltage should go up to around 14 volts. If your readings are as stated then you should be good to go. If not then its time for the poor-boy up grade. Good luck and hope the staters ok Hal
A woman that can use tools is worth her weight in gold !!

tombyers
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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby tombyers » Sun May 13, 2012 8:48 am

Thank you for the electric advice Halbudd. I will go to Harbor Freight and buy a DVM and see what the readings are.

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virgilmobile
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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby virgilmobile » Mon May 14, 2012 10:49 am

A few more notes for the stator.
There should be no resistance to ground from the 3 yellow wires.
The AC volts will be measured between any 2 yellow wires.
This is done in 3 measurements.Pair A,then B then C.
Were looking for 3 phase AC.
My 2 bikes average 35 volts AC at a idle and go to 70 volts AC around 3000 rpm.

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby tombyers » Mon May 14, 2012 10:51 am

I just checked the A.C. voltage on the three yellow wires coming from the stator and it was 23. But to get 23 I pinched the red lead to the bare wire with my fingers and held the black test lead on the negative battery terminal.

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virgilmobile
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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby virgilmobile » Mon May 14, 2012 12:14 pm

I misunderstand.
When measuring the AC volts from the stator,it should be done with the 3 yellow wires cut loose from the harness.
This separates the stator from the rest of the system so any pinching of wires should not make any difference at all.
Each pair of yellow wires going into the engine should show very low resistance between any pair and none to the battery or frame.
It it just a large coil of wire suspended in a rotating magnetic drum.

tombyers
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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby tombyers » Mon May 14, 2012 12:29 pm

Am I going bonkers? I just checked the A.C. reading again and got a reading of about 11 on each of the three yellow wires. I pinched the red electrical tester lead with my fingers to the wire and touched the black one to the negative battery terminal. So I am just going to call it good enough and replace the damaged burnt wiring with new wire splices according to HALBUDDS instructions.

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby virgilmobile » Mon May 14, 2012 12:42 pm

Yes your going insane. :D
When testing the stator,there is no reference to ground.
Do not measure to ground.
The stator is not grounded in any way.
If you measure to ground you will get erroneous readings.

The stator is measured "out of circuit" as a stand alone part with the volt meter wires connected to 2 of the 3 yellow wires on each measurement,never to ground.

Other than the rectifier/regulator module,it has no connection to the rest of the bike.
When hooked up,the voltage measurements will on the yellow wires will be different than unhooked.

Wire it direct,run the bike at 3500 rpm and watch for a few minutes that the DC volts across the battery posts don't exceed 14.8 volts.

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SilverDave
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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby SilverDave » Tue May 15, 2012 8:46 am

I don't think that with something as VERY important as a stator, you should ever call it good enough!!
Especially if you plan on riding more than 50 miles from home ...
I had a stator fail, when out touring ... and its awful !!


Here is the complete three part test for Goldwing 1200 stators ... Take your battery out, and get it load tested by a competant battery shop, then do this :

Three Part Stator Test:

First, put the bike on the center stand and cut the three yellow wires (A, B, C), and strip them back (1/2 inch)

Part 1:
With a multimeter set on resistance, check each leg to ground for shorts.
(Infinite resistance) Zero resistance means a shorted coil in Stator

Part 2:
With the meter set to read resistance, check resistance across each leg. A to B, B to C, then C to A. Each should be about 3 ohm's. Infinite resistance means an open winding and dead stator.

Part 3:
Start the bike, warm it up, Set meter on AC voltage NOT DC voltage.
When it’s warmed up, clip meter to a pair of yellow wire legs.
With the bike at 3000rpm, check leg A to B. then B to C. then A to C.

Compare the three readings. They should be close and between 50-70vac plus or minus about 5vac per leg.

If stator passes all three tests, and its still not charging properly, chances are you've got a bad regulator.

There is in the Wing manual a test, of sorts, for a fritzy rect/reg .


GL1200 harness:

As long as you have your soldering gun out, and the shrink wrap... I can HIGHLY recommend the EC GL1200 harness: all of the iffy connections replaced, double fused, larger gauge wire (smaller?? well ... BIGGER wire), and hot wires going to the coils, too.

http://www.electricalconnection.com/wir ... charge.htm


DK

SilverDave

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby tombyers » Wed May 16, 2012 9:53 pm

Thank you Virgilmobile and Silver Dave and Halbudd. I went to the auto parts store and bought wiring for the three splices to hook back up my three yellow stator wires. But when I got back I noticed that the auto store wire was thicker gauge then the thin stator wires. I did have a propane torch flux and solder wire. I honestly tried my best to solder the wires together but could only get the solder to fuse with the wires on one of the six connections. The other five I just ended up twisting the thin stator wire end around the thicker splice wire then using the torch to heat the shrink wrap tube. It looks like a real hack wire job. After I started it I put the black test lead on the negative battery post terminal and the positive lead to the (+ )battery terminal and read between 12 and 13 DC volts. I rode it today and did great at around 45 mph but not so good at starting from stop and slower speed. It was making a backfire type noise like farting rather then "bang". This is my second ride since the big carburetor overhaul job so I know I will try again synchronizing (tedious with two vacuum gauges), and adjusting the pilot screws. Hopefully that will do it. Tomorrow I will do a forty mile ride if its not raining to look at a 97 Grand Am to trade for my 97 Ranger pick up. I will check the mileage on that ride. SilverDave I like your wire harness product and I will order it to replace my hack job on the stator wires. But first I want to deal with a pitted fork tube causing failure of my left fork oil seal. Another GoldwingDocs post did recommend to sand the pits with high grit sand paper so I will try that first.

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 16, 2012 10:01 pm

Before sanding,super clean the area and mix some JB WELD to fill in any tiny holes,then sand smooth.Not a permanent fix but it can last a long time.

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SilverDave
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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby SilverDave » Wed May 16, 2012 11:24 pm

Soldering the three yellows : you might try a practise solder job or three, since these are three VERY important solder joints ...

Firstly, I used braided rather than solid...
and I used a 200 watt soldering gun, not a torch ...
and the best wire solder radio shack had to offer (wire resin inside, not pipe resin )

Then the stranded wire was un twisted and "cleaned" with a small razor blade, held sideways ,
until the naked half inch gleamed with brightly coloured copper everywhere...
then the separated strands were twisted back to a single strand... and checked for shiny again...
sometimes dull oxidized strands come to the surface... so a second gentle application of the sideways razor blade... it must be clean, clean wire.
( The same heat that wrecked the yellow wire plug might ruin the wire back for an inch or two... so make sure you see shiny copper ...)

Then three nested shrink wraps were slid on, ( l,r , l) well outa the way of the iron
"Nested Shrink" can be purchased from Radio Shack, or from most Auto supply stores.

and finally the best part : ( Here is where the practise helps )
a Western union splice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_union_splice

Once you have a double twisted Western splice, check for a strong physical bond
Then heat the joint, top, bottom, top , until the joint ( not the iron ) melts the fine wire solder...
Let it cool and check for a " Cold Solder " - a dull grey finish
if its "cold" re-heat, and redo again.

Remember up to 75 volts may flow thru here, and its important to have the very best joint possible.

Now slide smallest shrink wrap in, a touch of flame, next size, another flame... and finally the third ( longest)
and a final touch of flame ...
there!
Separate the three strands slightly ( heat dissipation ) and secure to the frame.

Wiggle them around a bit, and check for warmth after riding for a half hour or so....

---------------------------------------------------
If you feel you cannot make a secure, physically strong, super electrical connection :
Option #2
I have met two 1200 owners who used ,on their yellow wires connections so called "super crimps",
available mostly from any quality marine store.
These butt crimps come with their own clear plastic covers, are waterproof ( Marine use ) and require super strength to " crimp"

I used two of these to fasten the 12 ga wire on my EC wiring harness, and the only way I could get them to crimp was to use that inside part of a vice grip jaw: the cutter teeth of the jaw.

I am sure that they make fastener crimp pliers for these mega crimps.. I just don't own a pair .

Anyway ... watertight, super crimpy, and able to conduct high current in a marine environment ...
so being on a motorcycle should be a piece of cake ....

and they should be a adaquate replacement for the yellow wire plug .
The only negative is if you ever want to test your stator, you can un-solder the western union joints,
while these super crimps probably have to be cut off.

SilverDave

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby WingAdmin » Thu May 17, 2012 8:52 am

Yes, just twisting together and covering in heat-shrink is not going to last long. At best you'll have melted heat-shrink and perhaps a cooked stator, at worst, you'll have enough heat from the poor junction to actually cause a fire.

There is a LOT of current going through there. Any resistance (i.e. from oxidation) will cause heat - heat will cause further oxidation, which will cause more heat, and so on.

This is not the place to use an open-flame torch for soldering. Soldering with a flame can cause (again) oxidation of the copper wires. You really need to use an electrical soldering iron or gun to do this fix.

You need to first clean the existing copper wires fastidiously exactly as SilverDave explained, join them using a quality splice method (i.e. the Western Union splice SilverDave mentioned), then use a HIGH quality electrical solder - NOT plumbing solder. The solder solidifies the joint mechanically, and also seals it to prevent oxidation. Plumbing solder uses acidic flux which will corrode the wire and can cause more oxidation.

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby tombyers » Thu May 17, 2012 10:05 pm

OK I promise to redo the job with a different system like like the marine wire joining system SilverDave mentioned. Unfortunately I am unable to synchronize my carbs due to a huge disparity in vacuum readings. I hope I can get away with just ordering and installing a new secondary air cut off valve. The parts man said something like the reed valves and anti afterburn valves come as a set and are $100+. The Clymer manual describes a complicated procedure using a vacuum pump to test vacuum components while the motorcycle is running. A vacuum pump kit is $25 at Harbor Freight tools. When I cleaned the carbs I installed new o rings everywhere. I have to be optimistic that I am not under some sort of curse here and my luck here is going to change for the better on this repair job. I have already started smoking again over this.

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 18, 2012 10:25 am

You also mentioned the tedious job of syncing the carbs.
I had a bad experience with gauges, got the redass and pitched all of them in the dump.
This isn't for everybody ,but with what I built I can setup and sync my 1200 in less than a hour and never question if it's exact.
http://www.goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewt ... 94&p=40711

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Re: I might need to replace stator on 84 GL1200

Postby soumilinon » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:47 pm

when my 1200 died at a red light in 30degree C on a road trip,I got a boost and made to where I was staying.That night I fully charged the battery and purchased an extra battery for the 500mile drive home.I disconnected my headlight drove like I stole it,didn`t shut it off for fuel and made it home on one battery.When I tested the alternator,I just used a sharp pin to poke through wire casing ,set voltmeter to 20vdc range ,started bike and tested one wire at a time.The test showed 4.7/4.9/2.8=12.4 total volts.I ran the bike with, now no stereo or headlights for about 2500 miles till fall.Finally when it died the readings were still in the 4.5 volt range on two of the yellows the 3rd phase was done.The results ;new Honda stator,head gaskets ,clutch ,belts.all went well




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