Charging system soldering repairs


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Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:10 pm



I have done this to every gl Ive owned,this method also includes my 1500.
In Louisiana,electrical connections corrode quickly,especially unprotected ones.
To prevent any chance that my bike would leave me stranded in the deep south,I've taken these precautionary measures.
Obviously not every plug was soldered up,only the critical ones.....I need to keep the spark and charging going.If the turn signals go intermittent,I could deal with that later.
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bwagner6
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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby bwagner6 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:06 am

Thanks for taking the time to put this together.... very helpful.

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby CharlaineC » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:35 pm

WHERE DO I SOLDER THE TWO SMALL WIRES I HAD TO CUT THE WHOLE PLUG OFF AND NEED TO FIX IT BEFORE TOMORRW THE BIKE IS MY ONLY TRANSPORT RIGHT NOW

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:04 pm

I'm sorry.I'm missing this one.Can you post a picture or at least the color code or maybe where the wires are?
In my post above,each plug I removed had matching wires on each side.the plug was simply removed and each wire was soldered direct.

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby CharlaineC » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:15 pm

IF YOU LOOK AT THE SILINNoID WIRE PLUG where you cut the two red wires to connect them to the blade fuse. You have a green wire and yellow wire still in the plug. i need to find where they connect to so that i can solder them or wire nut them to where the plug went. they were shot and i had to cut them off they go the the bottom two spots on the plug in your photo where you had left them in place on the plug. I just dont want to have and issue. this is only temporary till I replace the whole wiring harnis

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:35 pm

Oh. The starter solenoid.
On mine,the plug was not removed.I just cut the 2 red wires and left the 2 small wires there.
They are the 2 wires that make the solenoid click.
If you removed the plug,you could solder them directly to the terminals that they originally plugged into.as I recall..and being on the road I can't confirm this... I think that the 2 small wires were attached to the pins closest to the solenoid round part.the front terminals had the 2 red ones on them.they are simply not needed now.
So...attach in any method that you can to the 2 terminals closest to the metal round cap and lugs.
Verify that the bike cranks before you finish and post if you have any other trouble.

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby richard s. » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:24 pm

It looks like I am having to make this mod myself. In following your pictures and instuctions, I am not certain about the green wires and the redwires. Are you making a three way connection to the corresponding wires runing to the solenoid or, are you taping off the red and green coming from the rec/reg. and only connecting the red and green from the harness to the solonoid? I also have a curious little sealed gismo hanging on two red and two green wires that are about 22ga. coming out of the big connector plug. Any Ideas?

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:13 pm

Yes.I just soldered a extra wire on the joints to pick up ground and a good 12 volts.The black wire from the harness is used to energize the relay and the relay provides that good 12 volts to the regulator.
The part is a plane jane automotive 12 volt relay.They are also used for switching on external lighting for driving lights.I did fuse the relay with a 5 amp fuse....just a habit.Here's a schematic that may help identify what I did.PM me if you get lost.I do have a phone.

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Re: voltage regulator swap out

Postby glt » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:28 pm

Today found the whole connection next to the regulator melted on my 85 1200 :cry: I was having charging problems and wanted to check everything before i ended up pulling the motor to change out the stator. looks as if i'm going to have to replace the regulator and butt joint all those connections. I'm looking for pointers so that this repair goes well and will last. Any and all tips are welcome, thank-you to all those who help

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:43 pm

please don't just crimp the butt joints.corroded wires lend to no better connections than what you now have.solder paste and solder them.

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:08 pm

Virgil Mobil.....Thanks for this detailed instruction. I started this project to clip the voltage regulator wires, add the relay, etc., but my dad had a stroke which has taken alot of my time. I just got back to this work yesterday, and I concentrated only on the 8 wires which connect to the Regulator connection joint. The connections looked pretty clean, so I decided to let the 3 yellows stay in the connection joint, along with a green, and a red. (Maybe you call this "jerry-rigged" and sloppy, but I thought I would give it a try like this). You can see this in the first pic attached.




So, I followed your wiring diagram and ended up installing based on the sketch I made (the lower sketch in this picture):

My sketch of how I would run the wires to the relay
My sketch of how I would run the wires to the relay


This next picture shows the soldering done, before I melted the heat-shrink tubing on the solder, and added electrical tape:

After soldering wires
After soldering wires


Here is the pic of the job supposedly "done", and I am ready to crank her up to test.
Relay placed infront of tank, all wires taped, ready to test.
Relay placed infront of tank, all wires taped, ready to test.


Note that I decided to wait to do the re-wiring on the right side of the battery at some future time, as all these connections looked great. I opened them all up, lightly cleaned, and tightened. I re-installed the battery and was ready to fire her up.

So I backed the ole Wing outside, turned on the gas, turned the key on, sprinkled a few drops of gas into the air filter box, and began cranking. She seems to crank without firing. I even tried a small squirt of starting fluid, but got no response.

So, can you suggest any mistakes I made in my wiring?

I sent the Harness Black to the 85 on the Relay.
I sent the Harness Green to the 86 on the Relay.
I sent the Harness Red thru the Fuse and then to the 87 on the Relay.
I sent the Regulator Black to the 30 on the Relay.

I also did the "Tee" you mentioned.....that is, I soldered the harness red to the fuse jumper and also to the red that used to continue thru the connection joint.
I did the "Tee" on the Harness Green......soldered a green jumper to both greens on each side of the connection joint.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have. I have no clue why there seems to be no spark at the plugs now.

Dwight.

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:20 pm

Virgilmobile:

Also, some more clues that may help solve my problem:

1. I did not mount the Relay to the motorcycle frame. The relay has a small metal bracket coming off it, but I figured that with the green ground running to it, that it does not have to be mounted to metal. Could this be a problem?

I do hear the Relay click on/off when I turn the switch key on/off......so, I think it is working fine.

2. Also, a curiosity for me is the missing connection that should be inserted alongside the other connector just to the left of the battery in this picture:
Connector missing here?
Connector missing here?


Do you have any idea if there is supposed to be a connector here? Maybe a prior owner removed something?

3. I did clean this connector (to the right of the battery) and sprayed some shots of lube in just to help blow out any residue, and let it dry. Then I plugged this connector back together. Is it possible that the lube I sprayed in is perhaps actually shortening out now due to the lube spray.....and this is causing the failure to get spark?
Beside my index finger is the connector I sprayed lube into.  Fatal error?
Beside my index finger is the connector I sprayed lube into. Fatal error?


Thanks for considering all this......maybe someone will have the answer here.

dwight

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:39 pm

dwight007fchr wrote:Also, some more clues that may help solve my problem:

1. I did not mount the Relay to the motorcycle frame. The relay has a small metal bracket coming off it, but I figured that with the green ground running to it, that it does not have to be mounted to metal. Could this be a problem?


No, that bracket is not electrically connected to anything. It is fine without being mounted.

dwight007fchr wrote:I do hear the Relay click on/off when I turn the switch key on/off......so, I think it is working fine.

2. Also, a curiosity for me is the missing connection that should be inserted alongside the other connector just to the left of the battery in this picture:

Do you have any idea if there is supposed to be a connector here? Maybe a prior owner removed something?


That is where the connector for the infamous "three yellow wires" goes. A previous owner has removed that problematic connector and soldered the wire directly (it is zip-tied to the battery ground in your picture).


Now for the diagnostics: The wiring you have been working with does nothing except charge the battery. As long as the battery has sufficient charge in it, you could disconnect all that stuff entirely and the bike would still start and run - until the battery ran out.

Do you have spark? Is your kill switch turned on by any chance?

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:46 am

WingAdmin....Thanks for your help.

1. Ok, the Relay does not have to be mounted with a ground to the frame....thats good.
2. OK.....so the prior owner must have already read one of your many helpful suggestions and already eliminated that connection.....I should have seen that....guess my mind was foggy.
3. Now the big problem....why she wont start. Yes, I did ensure that the Kill Switch was not on (up beside the throttle).
So, based on what you are saying, all of my splicing and soldering connections and relay should have no affect on the spark to the plugs....thats good to know.

Now, would you rule out my idea that when I sprayed a WD40-type lube into that 4 wire connector to the right of the battery (in the prior pictures above), that maybe this is creating some arcing/grounding, and not allowing the current to flow properly? Is this the connector that goes to my coils?

Many thanks.
dwight

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:10 am

dwight007fchr wrote:WingAdmin....Thanks for your help.

1. Ok, the Relay does not have to be mounted with a ground to the frame....thats good.
2. OK.....so the prior owner must have already read one of your many helpful suggestions and already eliminated that connection.....I should have seen that....guess my mind was foggy.
3. Now the big problem....why she wont start. Yes, I did ensure that the Kill Switch was not on (up beside the throttle).
So, based on what you are saying, all of my splicing and soldering connections and relay should have no affect on the spark to the plugs....thats good to know.

Now, would you rule out my idea that when I sprayed a WD40-type lube into that 4 wire connector to the right of the battery (in the prior pictures above), that maybe this is creating some arcing/grounding, and not allowing the current to flow properly? Is this the connector that goes to my coils?

Many thanks.
dwight


That connector is for the main fuse and starter solenoid. If it wasn't working, you would have no power at all, and/or would not be able to crank the engine. If you turn the key switch on and the headlight comes on, then there's nothing wrong with that connector. That said, WD-40 won't cause shorts - although it does leave an oily residue, and on that high-amperage connector, you might want to spray it out with some actual electrical contact cleaner instead of WD-40.

Are you familiar/comfortable with checking for spark?

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:40 am

Sorry,I've been gone a bit....
I agree with the Admin....Everything you worked on will have no affect on the engines ability to start and your wiring looks fine.

Pull one plug wire and stick a spare plug on it and crank the engine to verify if you do or do not have spark.
You were working in the area of the ignition wiring.....Next to the battery(3 yellow wires) there is a 4 wire plug....it's the pulse coil plug....verify it's clean and tight too.

It appears that you'r working on a gl1100..right?

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:06 pm

That connector is for the main fuse and starter solenoid. If it wasn't working, you would have no power at all, and/or would not be able to crank the engine. If you turn the key switch on and the headlight comes on, then there's nothing wrong with that connector. That said, WD-40 won't cause shorts - although it does leave an oily residue, and on that high-amperage connector, you might want to spray it out with some actual electrical contact cleaner instead of WD-40.

Are you familiar/comfortable with checking for spark?[/quote]


WindAdmin..........Thanks again.....so that 4 wire connector is for the main fuse/starter solenoid......and so if she is cranking fine, then the connector is not the problem. Yep....thats a good idea to spray the oily wd40 out with some electrical cleaner spray. Guess I will now check to see if I am getting fire to one of the plugs. It just seems odd that this is occurring after doing the cutting/soldering of the wires. But I guess those Murphey Grimlins love to play tricks at a time like this.
dwight

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:10 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Sorry,I've been gone a bit....
I agree with the Admin....Everything you worked on will have no affect on the engines ability to start and your wiring looks fine.

Pull one plug wire and stick a spare plug on it and crank the engine to verify if you do or do not have spark.
You were working in the area of the ignition wiring.....Next to the battery(3 yellow wires) there is a 4 wire plug....it's the pulse coil plug....verify it's clean and tight too.

It appears that you'r working on a gl1100..right?


Virgil........Howdie friend. Thanks for your input.....I will now check for spark. Regarding the pulse coil plug, I believe that is the one which my finger is pointing to in the picture and I was asking why it was missing......and WingAdmin said it had been cut and probably soldered by the prior owner, as he could see the wires taped under black electrical tape and tied to the battery ground cable. So, I would assume that these pulse coil wires are still ok.

dwight

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:15 pm

Virgil......yep, you have good eyes.....I am working on my old 83 GL1100 Interstate. Here she is:

83 GL1100 Interstate
83 GL1100 Interstate

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:49 pm

Virgil and WingAdmin:

Well, I pulled off the spark plug boots on the battery side and grabbed an old plug from my 69 Chevy C10 which managed to slide up into one of the plug boots. I then turned on the key and gave her a crank as I watched the plug resting on the intake manifold, and the spark was loud and clear.......and at the same time the other two cylinders began to fire and run for a moment. Amazing how a little coaching from an old Chevy plug will work wonders on a Goldwing....ha ha.

Even though I had charged the battery yesterday after a few amp pulls from the starter, she was not acting with much authority. I took out the Chevy plug and put the boot caps back on the Wing's plugs and gave her another try. This time she gave no hint of a desire to fire-up, and in just a couple seconds the battery was too weak to crank anymore. So I grabbed an extra deep cycle battery and tried a jump start. Hit the starter, and she fired-up with a roar.

So, maybe this old battery which has boiled over numerous times as a result of the over-charging, may be on its last legs. Do you think a battery with a weak heart would cause the coils to throw out a weaker spark, and make it a bit harder to fire-up?

I let the Wing warm up for a good 10 minutes, and then ran her around 1500-2000 rpms a bit, hoping to charge the battery. I then shut her down, and I still hear those annoying "bubbling" noises coming from the battery. I hope this is just common charging noises, and not a hint that the battery is going to boil over on my next road trip.

Final Question: I want to check the charging rate before putting all the parts back on. Since the relay is now in place, would I just poke one lead of the test meter up into the Relay to terminal No. 85 (Harness Black) and the other lead over to the Positive Battery terminal, and compare that reading with the reading from the Battery Neg and the Battery Pos? I assume the readings should be the same now? (Help me here, as I am probably way off).

Thanks again.
dwight

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:54 pm

Start the bike.Use a DVM directly across the batt posts.You should be seeing from 13.8 to 14.4 volts as the rpm. goes from idle to 3000 rpm.
Check your water level in the battery at least or charge it for 24 hours on a trickle charged and then have it load tested.
The volts while running even with a bad battery should not go over 14.6 volts.
Let us know what it measures now with the relay mod.

with the relay, the black wire on the regulator should be exactly the same as the battery voltage.Measure If you like just so it's clear what you did actually fixed the problem.

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:43 am

virgilmobile wrote:Start the bike.Use a DVM directly across the batt posts.You should be seeing from 13.8 to 14.4 volts as the rpm. goes from idle to 3000 rpm.
Check your water level in the battery at least or charge it for 24 hours on a trickle charged and then have it load tested.
The volts while running even with a bad battery should not go over 14.6 volts.
Let us know what it measures now with the relay mod.

with the relay, the black wire on the regulator should be exactly the same as the battery voltage.Measure If you like just so it's clear what you did actually fixed the problem.



Virgil.....Thanks. I just had her trickle-charged (2amps) all night. I do have a hand-held load tester, and will give the poor battery a chance to demonstrate its amps. (Regarding charging, in the manual it states to NEVER charge the battery with the terminals hooked-up to the Wing......do you think that advice is really necessary? It is annoying to always have to remember to disconnect one post before charging.)

Relay Measurement: So, are you saying that I should put the Red test lead on the Relay's No. 30 terminal (Regulator Black) and the Black test lead to the battery Negative post? Then compare this reading with the test meter on the battery's Pos. and Neg. posts.

Will give full reading info. after testing.
Thanks.
dwight

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:21 am

I should put the Red test lead on the Relay's No. 30 terminal (Regulator Black) and the Black test lead to the battery Negative post?

No.... red to the regulator black ,meter black to the battery positive.....While running,it used to measure around 1 volt DC...it now should be near zero.

Then compare this reading with the test meter on the battery's Pos. and Neg. posts.


No....measure the battery volts directly on the battery posts while running...13.5 or so at a idle and peaking to 14.5 max....


As far as charging....by the book was right when using the 30 year old battery chargers.....Not really necessary with todays technology.

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:50 am

Regarding the pulse coil plug, I believe that is the one which my finger is pointing to in the picture and I was asking why it was missing......and WingAdmin said it had been cut and probably soldered by the prior owner, as he could see the wires taped under black electrical tape and tied to the battery ground cable. So, I would assume that these pulse coil wires are still ok.


No....The 3 yellow wires that are taped up are the stator wires....1 inch to the left is a 4 wire plug.....It's the pulse coil wires....My 86 had corrosion in the contact and if bumped,it would kill the engine.
Just check it for corrosion....

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Re: Charging system soldering repairs

Postby dwight007fchr » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:49 pm

VirgilMobile......Thanks for clarifying that (the connection for the pulse coil). I just pulled it apart and cleaned it. Had a very small amount of corrosion on only one of the four copper pins. This time I used compressed air instead of WD40, and managed to sand the surfaces a bit.

Will try to finish up the voltage testing this weekend, and hopefully have the ole lady back together and ready to ride.

Thanks for the new electrical sketch and all prior assistance.

dwight




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