charging system (alternater)


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Jesse
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charging system (alternater)

Postby Jesse » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:56 pm



My Goldwing has been lose its charge when I ride more than 2 hrs at a time.
I have replaced the battery and the voltage regulator and still doing the same
thing any suggestions. :? :? :?



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WingAdmin
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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:32 am

Check the master fuse, it's right next to the solenoid. A lot of the time they will crack invisibly, and will not connect when they warm up, causing the battery to discharge. Try replacing it with a waterproof blade fuse holder - do a search for "blade fuse" here and you'll see several threads on the topic.

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tricky
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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby tricky » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:00 pm

Presumably you tested the alternator?

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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby Jesse » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:54 pm

Will try cheching the fuse to see if that's the problem.
And where is the alternater on a goldwing?

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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:23 am

Jesse wrote:Will try cheching the fuse to see if that's the problem.
And where is the alternater on a goldwing?


It's actually a stator. You'll find near the battery, a connector with three yellow wires. Read this post for more details on that.

To check the stator output, disconnect the stator plug (the three yellow wire plug) and start the bike up. While the bike is held at a steady 3500 RPM, check the stator output across all three legs (wires): 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 1. Each set should measure approximately 48 volts AC.

Next, stop the engine, and using the continuity (or resistance) setting on your meter, measure each of the three legs to ground. There should be NO continuity (infinite resistance) between any of the three wires and ground.

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tricky
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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby tricky » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:17 pm

It is an alternator. The stator is just one part of the system albeit the part that goes belly up, the other part is the rotating magnet.

To be more specific, the alternator is very efficient at producing a constant, high voltage, even when the motorcycle is idle, The alternating current is controlled by a voltage regulator to keep the voltage steady and in the case of the motorcycle converts the AC current to DC

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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:28 pm

tricky wrote:It is an alternator. The stator is just one part of the system albeit the part that goes belly up, the other part is the rotating magnet.

To be more specific, the alternator is very efficient at producing a constant, high voltage, even when the motorcycle is idle, The alternating current is controlled by a voltage regulator to keep the voltage steady and in the case of the motorcycle converts the AC current to DC


Well, not quite. The 1500 and 1800 have alternators, which work the way you mention. Instead of magnets, they have a set of field coils. The voltage regulator alters the amount of power going through the field coils, which changes the amount of magnetic flux presented to the stator. This way, a constant amount of power can be generated - at low RPM's, the field coils have increased power, creating more magnetic flux, so that it generates high power. At higher RPM's, the regulator causes the field coils to have reduced power, so that less power is generated. The whole idea is to have the alternator generate more or less the same amount of power regardless of engine speed. It's quite efficient, because it generates only the power the bike actually needs to run the electrical things on it and charge the battery. Because the regulator alters the field coil voltage, it is physically located inside the alternator.

The 1000, 1100 and 1200 have generators. Instead of field coils, they have fixed, permanent magnets. At low RPM's, the stator generates low amounts of power - not enough to run the bike and charge the battery, which is why these bikes will draw down (and eventually kill) the battery at idle or low RPM.

At higher RPM, the generators create more power than the bike actually needs to run itself and charge the battery. There is no way of telling the generator, "hey, make less power!" because it has no way of making less power. It makes as much as it is capable of, given the RPM of the engine. So the regulator is separate from the generator. In these bikes, the job of the regulator is to shunt excess generated power to ground, and it is wasted in the form of heat. That's why the regulator in GL1000-GL1200 bikes gets so hot.

Most GL1000, GL1100 and GL1200 owners say things like "I changed my lights to LEDs to lighten the load on my regulator/charging system." Actually, it does the opposite, and here's why:

As I mentioned, The regulator's job is to only let enough of this full power through to power the electrical accessories and to charge the battery. Any extra power generated by the stator is sunk directly to ground by the regulator, and is wasted as heat. This is why the regulator gets so hot.

The more power you draw, the less power the regulator sinks to ground, the cooler it runs. The less power you draw, the more power the regulator has to sink to ground, and the hotter it runs.

So putting LED's on your bike, reducing the electrical load, actually makes the regulator work harder (and hotter) sinking all that extra power to ground.

The best reason to put LED's on your bike is to free up electrical capacity so that you can install something else (i.e. driving lights).

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tricky
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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby tricky » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:14 pm

Maybe you had better mention it to Honda, they are under the impression that they installed an alternator.
Maybe thats why they are having trouble with them, they don't know what they installed.
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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:20 pm

Note in the schematic circuit, there are no field windings, and that the regulator is after the generator.

Technically I suppose you could call it an alternator because it has three windings and puts out three phase AC (alternating current), whereas a generator typically has brushes and puts out DC. But in common terms used today, an alternator refers to a device with field coils, such as is found in a car, not permanent magnets.

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tricky
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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby tricky » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:56 pm

Here is a good article on the regulator:

5th post down

http://www.gl1200goldwings.com/viewtopi ... =52&t=7522

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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby Right Winger » Sat May 01, 2010 4:27 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
tricky wrote:It is an alternator. The stator is just one part of the system albeit the part that goes belly up, the other part is the rotating magnet.

To be more specific, the alternator is very efficient at producing a constant, high voltage, even when the motorcycle is idle, The alternating current is controlled by a voltage regulator to keep the voltage steady and in the case of the motorcycle converts the AC current to DC


Well, not quite. The 1500 and 1800 have alternators, which work the way you mention. Instead of magnets, they have a set of field coils. The voltage regulator alters the amount of power going through the field coils, which changes the amount of magnetic flux presented to the stator. This way, a constant amount of power can be generated - at low RPM's, the field coils have increased power, creating more magnetic flux, so that it generates high power. At higher RPM's, the regulator causes the field coils to have reduced power, so that less power is generated. The whole idea is to have the alternator generate more or less the same amount of power regardless of engine speed. It's quite efficient, because it generates only the power the bike actually needs to run the electrical things on it and charge the battery. Because the regulator alters the field coil voltage, it is physically located inside the alternator.

The 1000, 1100 and 1200 have generators. Instead of field coils, they have fixed, permanent magnets. At low RPM's, the stator generates low amounts of power - not enough to run the bike and charge the battery, which is why these bikes will draw down (and eventually kill) the battery at idle or low RPM.

At higher RPM, the generators create more power than the bike actually needs to run itself and charge the battery. There is no way of telling the generator, "hey, make less power!" because it has no way of making less power. It makes as much as it is capable of, given the RPM of the engine. So the regulator is separate from the generator. In these bikes, the job of the regulator is to shunt excess generated power to ground, and it is wasted in the form of heat. That's why the regulator in GL1000-GL1200 bikes gets so hot.

Most GL1000, GL1100 and GL1200 owners say things like "I changed my lights to LEDs to lighten the load on my regulator/charging system." Actually, it does the opposite, and here's why:

As I mentioned, The regulator's job is to only let enough of this full power through to power the electrical accessories and to charge the battery. Any extra power generated by the stator is sunk directly to ground by the regulator, and is wasted as heat. This is why the regulator gets so hot.

The more power you draw, the less power the regulator sinks to ground, the cooler it runs. The less power you draw, the more power the regulator has to sink to ground, and the hotter it runs.

So putting LED's on your bike, reducing the electrical load, actually makes the regulator work harder (and hotter) sinking all that extra power to ground.

The best reason to put LED's on your bike is to free up electrical capacity so that you can install something else (i.e. driving lights).



Makes sence to me . Exactly what I was taught :)

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tricky
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Re: charging system (alternater)

Postby tricky » Sat May 01, 2010 5:42 pm

I am not an eltronics guru, just enough to keep my bike running for the past 25 year.

In the HONDA manual it is described as an alternator, one of the tests uses a volt/ohm meter set on AC presumably to measure AC current.

Honda calls it an alternator so I call it an alternator, the only difference being that the regulator is external to the unit compared to my external alternator.

After all it does produce AC current

If it quacks I would call it a duck.




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