oil leaking into impeller


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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ktowler
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Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Interstate

oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:37 am



i just bought an 84 gl1200 from a friends dad. He told me he was going 105 mph and downshifted twice on accident and blew a head gasket. I said ok I can fix that... So I just got my head gaskets in and installed them correctly in the correct head bold order and torque checked three times and put valve covers back on and then the timing belts... All was good and easy, so I left the timing covers off and the radiator off just to see if it would start after a few years from sitting... finally after a little time she fired rite up, I was happy!!! but then i noticed on top of the right cylinders there was oil on top dripping onto the ground and fresh oil coming out at a pretty decent rate out of the impeller where the bottom of the radiator hose connects... Any help to what I can do to check anything before i ask a shop to steal my money when i can do it free???

She also has 71 thousand miles if that makes any difference... And I can wiggle the impeller about a mm back and fourth and wasn't sure if that was normal wear or not or just a rubber i could replace or not


Last edited by ktowler on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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virgilmobile
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:00 am

There should be no lateral movement in the pump shaft.Oil usually drips from the weep hole in the bottom.The pump may need replacing.I'm interested where it's leaking from The top too.
Is it from the head gasket.There is a oil passage up there.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:43 pm

I just replaced the head gaskets on both sides... And I'll have to look into the impeller tho... I'm out in my shop now

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:04 pm

Is there a way i can test the water pump to see if its still good or has it just sat to long to have the rubber seals gone bad...?

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seabee_
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby seabee_ » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:30 am

Virgil's right. There should be no play in the shaft. With the age of the bike I would install another pump to be safe. The rubber orings do go bad with age. I would also check to see if the oil is coming from somewhere else. I agree, the oil should be coming from the weep hole if the orings are bad.
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ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:33 pm

Do you happen to know if an OEM water pump comes with the three o rings to seal it?

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Phunnybone
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby Phunnybone » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:37 pm

Bought an OEM water pump for my 85 gl1200 ltd. Nothing in the box but the pump. Try http://www.everythingwing.com/products/GL1200-K%26L-WATERPUMP-SEAL-KIT.html for all the gaskets.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:07 pm

Awesome, thanks...!!!... That should do the trick

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:15 am

Is there much of a difference of a metal or composite pump? any difference on the life...

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Phunnybone
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby Phunnybone » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:52 am

Only from reading forums and not from actual experience . . . go with the OEM water pump (somewhere around $160) rather than aftermarket. Impellers on OEM are metal and some of the plastic impellers on aftermarket tend not to last long. According to the previous owner (PO), the water pump in mine was replaced 23 years ago. Mine's not weeping yet, but when I did the timing belt replacement I looked at it and there's corrosion on 1/2 of the impeller - so I went ahead and ordered a new one.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:26 pm

Ok thats what i was thinking and im going to get a used OEM next week and then going to get a new one in a few weeks when the money comes in... but then again i might wait till i sell my 78 cx500 and use that money to buy a new pump... But we shal see... Really don't want to replace the head gaskets again haha

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:59 pm

Is there any thought on to where else possible a leak could be from on top of the cylinder head? Like maybe a vent from the air box or something like that because my cx500 is like that and it leaks a bit of oil.... Hmmmm.........................

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feetup
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby feetup » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:59 pm

If oil is coming from the top of the cylinder head gasket the likely culprit would be the oil control orifice. This is the little drilled rod about 3/8" long and a little less than 1/4" in diameter, with a section turned down to about 3/16" or less. It has two "O" rings, a large and small and is the only place where pressurized oil passes the cylinder head gasket. If you forgot to re-install it (as others have done before) or if you did not replace the "O" rings it will leak.
The only other place where oil could leak on the top of the engine are the oil pipe that goes between three banjo fittings on the top of the block, the oil pressure light switch, just ahead of the fuel pump, and the timing plug just to the left of center, behind the plenum chamber.

I suppose that oil could be leaking from the valve cover gasket, I had one with a defect I didn't notice that leaked on top.

Personally I would not waste any money on a used water pump. It is likely as old as yours, and a lot of work to replace, only to discover it leaks as well. Also, as has been said above, don't wast your money on an aftermarket pump, there are some really nasty, poorly made ones out there. Yes, the OEM pump is expensive but worth it. Be sure it is the pump leaking though before you tear into it. It most likely is, based on the age. There is a weep hole in the bottom of the casing and that's where it will show first. Sometimes it will leak right into the coolant though, past the pump seals and bearings. If the oil is running down the front cover from above the pump it is most likely the front main seal.
Be sure to change the two "O" rings that fit on the water pump body. All the gaskets and "O" rings for the pump and front cover are available as a set. Many folks have used one of the aftermarket sets successfully.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:21 pm

The "weep" hole everyone is referring to was plugged with all kinds of gunk... I took out the pump and it was surely bad so i have one coming, not new yet but i will when the money comes in... Also, what do the chrome tubes do? There are two on eat head and you have to take off the carb connections to the head and twist them a quarter turn to pop them out. There is one on the right and one on the left of each cylinder head, are they just breathers? there was a clip on there where it connected the the air box i think and i put it on without the clip, so maybe there but not sure, first goldwing...

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feetup
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby feetup » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:33 pm

The tubes you are referring to are auxiliary air feed pipes. They feed air from the plenum chamber to the cylinder head where a drilling feeds that air to the exhaust ports to help reduce emissions. If you have a small air leak in one of them it will not affect operation of the bike at all. Some models (like the Canadian and some overseas models) don't even have them.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:43 pm

Okay thats good and a relief but i still have a leak and don't really want to take everything off if I don't have to so when my water pump comes in ill hook it up and put in fresh synthetic oil and try and see where the small leak is...

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feetup
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby feetup » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:00 pm

Although full synthetic oil has many benefits, you might find that things leak more with it. Synthetic oils will pass through much smaller spaces, which is good for internal parts, but not so good for hard old seals and gaskets.
It's not the oils fault and the old tale that synthetics cause leaks is not entirely true, but if a seal or gasket is on the edge of failure, sometimes synthetic oils will find their way through where conventional oils did not.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:40 pm

I had run regular oil in it 2 weeks ago just to kinda clean up the inside of the engine and i saw these leaks, I haven't even touched the "good" stuff yet haha... We'll see if I can figure it out.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:44 am

Into a little further investigation with a light it appears to be leaking from a banjo bolt connection either the washer or pipe that it is on, i'll have to check it out tomorrow tho... But by the looks of it, I don't think that i'll have to remove anything else like the carbs, I kinda am just guessing that they are clean because the bike idles really good and winds up quick like normal, just has that leak and then i'll be able to check the main jets on the road... Thank you all tho really, You've all helped a lot but I'm sure it'll all be good in the end after a fresh custom garage paint... I'll see about posting a pic after that... May be a week, or 10... haha ;)

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feetup
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby feetup » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:24 am

A couple of things to watch for that are trouble spots for these bikes.

You mentions timing belts. Did you use new ones, or do you know that they have been replaced recently? The timing belts on these machines have a limited life and since these are interference engines, if one fails while running it will marry the pistons and valves, and these kind of mixed marriages never work out well.

The second thing to check is the three yellow wires by the battery (from the alternator to the regulator) and if the plugs have been removed and they have been hard wired. Do a search on this or the other websites and there is a huge amount of info on these wires and the original plugs in this circuit. They all have or will fail at these plugs taking your alternator stator with them. The "dogbone" fuse by the starter relay behind the battery is also iffy. Do a search on that too.

Other than these two things, and the head gaskets and water pump that you already know about these are extremely reliable machines, nearly 30 years old and almost all of them running mile after mile and never missing a beat. That doesn't mean they don't need to be maintained. Remember that all the grease in all the bearings is also nearly 30 years old.

As for the carbs, many '84 has never had the carbs out and run pretty much flawlessly. Once you get it up and running add a bit of seafoam to the gas, that helps many, and never hurt anyone. Change your oil a bit more often than necessary to help get and keep things clean, and perhaps add a bit of seafoam to the crankcase 50 or 100 easy miles before an oil change to help with the cleaning and flushing.

Enjoy!

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:58 pm

Ok, So the timing belts actually look like they have been replaced maybe 2-3 years ago and look really good, I'll check on and look at the wires, fuse and connection... The rear gear oil was replaced 2 or 3 years ago and most of the time it has just sat because of the initial head gasket was blown from the water pump, but i have some oil additive I'll add be4 my first real oil change... I had my CX500 and it sat 20 almost 21 years since it was even thought about being ran and i'm sure it was gunk inside the engine as well, it just takes some time, a little wear and heat of the engine to clean itself out naturally with an oil change...

A question I have as well. I watched a video on tip of buying a new goldwing on youtube and the guy who did the video said the oil should be a clearish yellow tint ow whatever color the oil is right out of the bottle. Every oil change I have done or say has always been a little black or completely black, is there anything special there?

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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby tom84std » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:48 am

ktowler, it's been my experience that even good oil in a good engine tends to darken as it's used. If it's a 'new to you' bike you have no idea how often the previous owner changed it. The way I like to 'clean' an internally dirty engine is to change the oil several times in short succession. I do the first change and put about 500 miles on it then change it again. Put about 1000 miles on that and change it again. I've been able to clean out several nasty engines this way. The problem is that if you check the oil after a long ride you'll see an accurate picture of what kind of gunk is really suspended in the oil. Allow it to sit for a week and check it again and the oil will appear very fresh and clean as all that stuff has settled away from the dipstick. The best way to get the gunk out is to ride the bike for a half hour and then immediately drain it upon returning home, while all the stuff is still suspended.

ktowler
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Re: oil leaking into impeller

Postby ktowler » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:12 pm

Ok awesome! Thats what I was thinking, 500 miles, 1000, then 2000 miles then the normal 3 for me... and always immediately after a ride when all the fun stuff is floating around in the oil for a while... Thank you for the clarification though, I also have some kind of oil additive you add a few miles before the oil change, I'll half it one oil change to another




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