rectifier output?


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86pearlblue
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rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Wed May 29, 2013 2:55 pm



OK... I have scoured this site, but I can't seem to find specifications as to what the output of the rectifier should be at given RPM's other than at 3500 RPM. Most of my riding takes place between 1800 and 2400. Is it typical that my battery will not charge at those speeds? It's a new stator, regulator, battery and all connections are clean and tight, but on a nice day cruise, my battery just about gets drained. The other day, I started the day with 12.7v and ended with 12.3v. No aftermarket electronics, etc, just playing the stereo. Today, after running around town (no stereo), I'm now down to 12.07v.

It seems to like short runs to the store and back, where the voltage actually goes up.

Here's what I have doing all the tests I can think of when the engine and all components are warm running at 2000 RPM:
Each leg of stator to ground reads 18v DC
Each leg of stator to any other leg 60v AC
Red out of rectifier to ground 12.1V

Values go up with increased RPM.
With bike off, all resistance measurements within specified ranges in manual.


I don't get it. I'm usually pretty good in diagnostics, but I can't seem to figure this one out, and I refuse to believe that this bike will only run properly at 3500 RPM.
HELP!!!



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86pearlblue
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Wed May 29, 2013 3:00 pm

I shouls also point out that I have removed all after market electronics and communications. I found a drain on system with key off and have removed the bad circuit from the system. There is no key off drain. All lights seems to be in good working order and I don't believe the issue is with current usage, but with current supply.

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thrasherg
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby thrasherg » Wed May 29, 2013 3:37 pm

It looks like your rectifier/regulator has died, You should see around 14 volts any time the engine speed is over 1500 RPM. The DC measurement on the stator is meaningless, but the 60 volts AC would be correct if the regulator/rectifier was disconnected from the stator. 12.1V from the regulator is way too low. You don't say what model wing this is, but I would be looking to source a replacement regulator/rectifier.

Gary

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virgilmobile
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 29, 2013 3:57 pm

I did my 84 interstate....Voltage measurements on the battery with a DVM were....
12.6 volts with the key off.
12.4 volts just after starting the engine and at 1000 rpm.
!2.8 climbing to 13.8 as I held the engine at 1500 RPM for the first 3 minutes while the battery recovered.
14.1-14.3 volts while driving average 1500-2500 rpm
All lights on including the high beam.
The voltage did not drop below 13.6 volts at any time...
You have a problem.....
With a good system and battery,at least mine would charge the battery at 2 amp and keep the volts above 13.5 even at 900 rpm.

The voltage measurement from the stator wires to ground is mute.
The AC measurements are fine.
the voltage on the red wire is low.
Is the regulator a after market or OEM?

Your diagnostic skills are fine...Your just too deep in the forest.
I'll pretend I never read anything but "my battery goes dead" part and go from there.
First...Using your DVM....Start the bike,set the engine to 1000 rpm.
Probe the engine case or frame and the negative post of the battery with the DVM....
.....It needs to read ZERO volts....I have seen the negative lug corroded and have a poor connection there.
Second...still probing the engine case,move up to the green wire on the regulator....Right on the regulator now....It also needs to read zero....
Same story..corroded ground lug or oxidized wire in the crimped factory connector.

Third...Still running....Probe the positive post of the battery and the red wire at the regulator....It should also be zero...
You get the idea?Checking for voltage loss from one point to another.
I would accept a loss in the red wire of no more than 0.50 volts DC.
Post what you find...You may just have a poor regulator if all the voltages are OK.

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86pearlblue
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Wed May 29, 2013 4:52 pm

will try those... This is an '86 Aspy. I should propbably also note that I had replaced the regulator/ rectifier PRIOR to discovering the issue with the stator. It was an OEM replacement (aftermarket). Thanks for the numbers and the quick responses. They definitely don't jive with what I have. :evil: Sometimes I just wanna put a 9mm through it and put it out of it's misery! But then I think of all the time and effort put into restoring it! :lol:

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virgilmobile
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 29, 2013 6:12 pm

OEM can be different from aftermarket replacement. Check your PM

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WingAdmin
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby WingAdmin » Wed May 29, 2013 6:41 pm

Disconnect your stator from the regulator, and measure the resistance (ohms) between each leg of the yellow wire and ground. There should be infinite (or very close to it) resistance - i.e. no connection.

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virgilmobile
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 29, 2013 6:46 pm

This is a good test for winding leakage.
Just don't do it with the engine running.
Right Sparky?

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Re: rectifier output?

Postby WingAdmin » Wed May 29, 2013 6:52 pm

virgilmobile wrote:This is a good test for winding leakage.
Just don't do it with the engine running.
Right Sparky?


It just occurred to me that I hadn't specified that, and came back here, only to find you just have. Right - no ohming out stator coils with the engine running!!

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Re: rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Wed May 29, 2013 9:26 pm

already did the ohm check on the stator. It's fine. Output from the stator seems adequate. Performed the other recommended checks and voltage drops are in the mv range. All voltage drops added up only amount to .2v. Will clean the cable to block connection, but I can't see this as being the culprit. Reads 0 ohms from battery to block. I guess I'll try another regulator, unless there's something else to check?

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virgilmobile
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 29, 2013 9:46 pm

Nope.just swap it out.
The system should run wide open till the voltage regulator part of the module shunts the excess to ground.
Other than the wiring,there's only 2 parts to the charging system.The stator which puts out the power and volts, and the R/R module that makes it usable.

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86pearlblue
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Thu May 30, 2013 7:14 pm

after a nice chat with virgilmobile on the phone and acting upon his suggestion, I put the original rectifier in. after running it for 1/2 hour at 1600 rpm, the output at the regulator was13.4 volts. even at an idle I was getting 12.7v, which is a whole lot better than I had. The aftermartket was only giving me 11.6v at idle. I'll probably give it a good run on the road tomorrow and see what happens. keeping fingers crossed. If this works, I owe Virgil a six pack!

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virgilmobile
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 30, 2013 8:36 pm

It may take a few hours to get the battery up to full capacity, especially with the bikes charging capacity.
Good luck.keep us up to date.

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thrasherg
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby thrasherg » Thu May 30, 2013 11:31 pm

Sounds like I had a lucky guess :D

Gary

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86pearlblue
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Fri May 31, 2013 2:53 pm

Update>>>
After 60 mi. on this 93 degree day:
At idle (1000 rpm) 12.4 v
@ 1500 rpm- 12.8v
@2000 rpm- 13.4v
key off - 12.8v (13.2 right after shut off, settling to 12.8)

still not as high as I'd like to see it, but better. Plan on a day cruise over the weekend and we'll see how it holds up. I can't believe the old one is better than the new... You'd think with the advances over the last 25 years, the new ones would be better. I guess the issue was the stator all along. Although in trying to track down this problem, I did find and correct other electrical issues.

Now... I 'm running LED brake/ tail lights. I read somewhere that I need to install a resistor somewhere in the circuit to get the dash light to turn off. Any insights on where, what size and how to install?

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Re: rectifier output?

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:23 am

I ended up using a 100 watt, 4-ohm power resistor, connected in parallel with the LED. The resistor has heat fins on it to dissipate heat. Even then, when left running for more than a few minutes, the resistor reached over 200 degrees F - hot enough to melt plastic bodywork. So I used some stainless band clamps to clamp it to the frame of the bike, to use the frame as a giant heat sink. That worked very well, and the resistor does not get very hot anymore.

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86pearlblue
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:42 pm

thanks admin, I'll get a resistor @ R.S. tomorrow.... as an update, we went for a 90 mile cruise today. Started out with 12.67v at battery and ended with 12.86v. So it looks as though the charge issue has been... (wait for it)... rectified!!! :lol:

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WingAdmin
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:06 pm

86pearlblue wrote:thanks admin, I'll get a resistor @ R.S. tomorrow.... as an update, we went for a 90 mile cruise today. Started out with 12.67v at battery and ended with 12.86v. So it looks as though the charge issue has been... (wait for it)... rectified!!! :lol:


Make sure it's a power resistor - it has to sink a lot of heat! I got mine from Amazon for a fraction of the price:

http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Aluminum-She ... m_sbs_hi_2


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86pearlblue
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Re: rectifier output?

Postby 86pearlblue » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:44 pm

Will do. Rather get 'er done than wait a week online.




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