Rod knock at high speed


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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nlovern
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Rod knock at high speed

Postby nlovern » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:25 pm



Hi,
I took my Wing (86) on the interstate for the first time today and I noticed at 75 the right side of motor has a definite rod noise. One or both cylinders I couldn't tell.
Is this bad? should I stay away from interstates and 75+ speeds?
Been riding it for 3 months now and have not noticed any engine noise except little valve chatter at low pulls. No rod noise at normal 55MPH.
Thanks
Nathan Lovern
Rural Retreat,Va



rzaugg
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby rzaugg » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:54 pm

If it is truly rod knock, that is never a good thing, at any speed. If you are due for an oil change, you could do a little diagnosing during that time to see just how bad it is. When you drain the oil, cover the pan with some sort of filter. Paper towel or an old t-shirt. Also cut the paper part of the filter loose so you can unfold it. Both of these steps will give you an idea of how much metal/bearing material is in the oil. If you are not finding a lot, I would check some other things. Timing belt "slap" can sound very much like a knock. Doesn't cost anything to take the cover off and check the belts and tensioners.

Also, when you have the drain plug out, I would put a "pocket pen" style magnet into the crankcase just for good measure. See what comes out with it.

Good Luck! Hope it's not rod knock.

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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby bustedwing » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:11 pm

Also at high rpm and with a change in timing you may be hearing spark knock which is common on the older engines as they were made with leaded fuel in mind. Their are additives that you can put into each tank of gas to cure this. I hope that it is something as simple as that.
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rzaugg
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby rzaugg » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:15 pm

Don't waste your money on the lead additive, leaded gas was pre-1974. You could however run a tank of premium through it if you suspect it is pre-detonation ping

nlovern
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby nlovern » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:17 pm

I run 90 oct etholol free

63spyder
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby 63spyder » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:39 pm

Leaded fuel was still around up into the nintys. A lot of cars were unleaded before that but leaded fuels did not get fazed out until the 90s , this also depended on the state you were in

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golden highway
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby golden highway » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:33 am

Mine makes the same noise at 75. I don't think it is a rod knock since it is solid otherwise. I never have any metal in the oil and you would think by now it would have gotten worse or broke. I figure a 75 it wouldn't be as slow a knock as it is if it were a rod and why only in the 75 range

nlovern
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby nlovern » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:12 am

Mine is on the right side only. Maybe the speed and rpm it was run at most of its life and that's where the most wear is

flash1942
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby flash1942 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:09 am

I would think that if it was a rod it would be heard at any rpm and especially at low rpm with the engine pulling hard like going uphill and not downshifting when you normally should.If there is no metal specks in the oil and it seems to run ok otherwise then it could be carbon accumulation on the piston/head and that may have a lot to do with how it's been ridden previously. "Old man " showboating around town mostly at slow speeds and never cruising at hiway speeds can cause this. The pistons hit the built up carbon and create a "knocking" noise that sounds scary. The "old mechanics" way to fix this was to get out on a lonely hiway and drop it down into 2nd and run the rpm's close to redline for a few seconds then back-off the throttle and repeat for quite a few times, all the time watching the temperature gauge. What you are trying to do is burn the carbon out and "flush" the cylinders with a "cooler" mixture by decelerating rapidly. You might even try adding a can of Seafoam to your gas to help.
You might even take a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint the area. If it is louder at the heads then it could be carbon. If it is louder at the crankshaft area then get ready for a major repair.

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Ed Z
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Ed Z » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:37 pm

There is a problem that can occur with the hydraulic circuit of the rocker assembly... There is a small oil port that gets clogged and causes it to loose oil pressure... This causes the rocker to clatter... I tried to get the pictures of it but the URL link I had no longer works... But I did find this post on it...
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20456

Just found this article... Look at post #5 for the picture of the problem area...
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-g ... 200-a.html

bustedwing
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby bustedwing » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:09 am

Lifter noise would be noticeable at idle and when the engine is hot. I believe to cure the noise you could use a fuel additive that would get rid of the carbon .
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Ed Z
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Ed Z » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:17 pm

No, not neccessarly... This is an oil flow issue and is directly related to RPM...

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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Old Fogey » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:47 pm

Honda designed the Wing engines to run unleaded right from the off; hence the valve contact surfaces being faced with Stellite.

Ed Z wrote:No, not neccessarly... This is an oil flow issue and is directly related to RPM...


Totally agree. Somewhere you are not making pressure; that could be blocked filter, stuck pressure blow-off valve or choked crankcase filter. Unfortunately, Honda for some reason deleted the access plate that the earlier engines had to get to the filter, meaning you need to split the cases to clean it. Clever............NOT!
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nlovern
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby nlovern » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:56 pm

I have no money to do anything like that. I sold everything I owned to get the $940 to get the Wing. I could never afford a motor tear down. We live check to check. Wife mad cause I didn't use it for bills

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golden highway
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby golden highway » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:03 pm

I recently had a problem with my bike running bad, it was due to the dogbone fuse which I replaced awhile back. I have been noticing some oddities in the running of my bike before it really started acting up. What I am getting at is the replacement fuse holder had been arching and overheating and melted. The original dogbone can also and will crack and do the same thing. I replaced the fuse holder and fuse, now my bike is running great again and the knock at 75 is gone. I might be worth checking or replacing the dogbone fuse and see if it cures your problem. The fuse holder and fuse were about $9.00. Eliminating the three yellow wire plug and the dogbone fuse is something you should do no matter what.

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Ed Z
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Ed Z » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:14 pm

Old Fogey... Check the link I provided above... It has a picture of the area of blockage in the head itself... This causes the lifter to be starved for oil and begin clattering... Please read the article...

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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Old Fogey » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:32 am

Ed Z wrote:Old Fogey... Check the link I provided above... It has a picture of the area of blockage in the head itself... This causes the lifter to be starved for oil and begin clattering... Please read the article...


I had missed your link. Interesting thread.. I admit to not having as intimate knowledge of the 1200 as I have of the 1000/1100, and that could be the answer to the tapping, as could the other things like the worn lifters and/or adjustment mentioned in it.
But that doesn't answer the rod knock, and if that rocker orifice is blocked, that would indicate to me a lack of maintenance and dirty oil, which brings me back to the same answer as before.
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flash1942
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby flash1942 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:02 am

Does anyone live somewhat near this guy to run by and take a look at his problem?

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Ed Z
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Ed Z » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:13 pm

No adjustment on the 1200's .... It's hydraulic just like your car...

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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Old Fogey » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:15 pm

Ed Z wrote:No adjustment on the 1200's .... It's hydraulic just like your car...


Apparently there is...... read the link.
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Ed Z
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Ed Z » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:42 pm

UUUmmmmm NO... They are talking about the shaft the rockers are mounted on... It can slide to one side or the other... They are talking about centering it again... I will not continue this further... I have had a 1987 1200 for many years and became very familiar on its design and operation... My posting here was to help the original poster, not to argue back and forth... Do enjoy you day sir...

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golden highway
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby golden highway » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:51 pm

Ed Z wrote:UUUmmmmm NO... They are talking about the shaft the rockers are mounted on... It can slide to one side or the other... They are talking about centering it again... I will not continue this further... I have had a 1987 1200 for many years and became very familiar on its design and operation... My posting here was to help the original poster, not to argue back and forth... Do enjoy you day sir...


The only problem is you are talking about valve chatter and poster is asking about a rod knock. I don't think he needs to tear down his motor at this point. It sounds like his motor is OK but something is out of wack. Always try the easy stuff first.

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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby Old Fogey » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:09 pm

Dear me, I thought we were having a civilised discussion in order to help this guy, not having an argument.

Please note that I had already said that I was not totally familiar with the 1200; also note that I said 'apparently' since that was how the thread came across to me.

Ok, I'm out of here! Go find someone else to get on your high horse with.
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flash1942
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby flash1942 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:17 am

What do you have to lose? Give Seafoam a try. One can in the tank and one in the oil and ride that baby until the gas is gone. Won't hurt and could possibly help. A heck of a lot cheaper than a teardown. May prove some of us right or some of us wrong so give it a try.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Rod knock at high speed

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:33 pm

I find it to be peculiar that a rod knock would only be audible at 75mph. I do not know anything about lifters becoming "locked" at certain RPMS, but a simple test can be conducted to see if it is "speed" or "RPM" related. My GL1200 reaches 75MPH at about 3600 RPMs, if memory serves me correctly, so if it is RPM related, the same noise should occur regardless of what gear the engine is in, as long as the RPMs are raised to the same as running 75 mph in overdrive (I assume)?

3rd gear is good for trying this, as that's less than 50 MPH... so I'd try that. Get on the bike, start it, put it in gear and run down the road... increase speed and RPMs until the same RPMs show on the tach as you would see at 75 MPH... but do it in 3rd gear... see if the sound is there. If it isn't there, then I'd have to start looking somewhere else for the source of the noise.

Lately, and I have no reason why, my 1200 has been "spark knocking" under load. I do not know if it is "summertime" gas VS "wintertime" gas, or if it is just time for me to check carbs again.

I did a Google search on Rural Retreat, Va. (Where the original question came from I suppose) and it is probably 4 1/2 - 5 hours riding time from me (I'm close to Franklin, Va. if you look on a map)... so, while I'd be happy to have a look or take a test ride to help out, I don't think I'm ready to hop on mine to ride 10 hours out and back to do it, YET....

If there are some blocked oil passages in your engine, and the "trouble" only manifests itself at 75 MPH, the simple solution is, don't ride that fast.

I believe someone mentioned changing the oil... trying some seafoam in the oil.

There's definitely nothing wrong with an oil and filter change... the filter may tell you something when you change it and look at the element. The drained oil may also tell you something if you strain it through a nice clean rag or coffee filter (slowly) stuffed in a funnel. Any particulate, too heavy to be picked up by the pump, laying in the crankcase may be "swept" oil during the oil draining process, and you may find them in the homemade strainer.

That's all I have for the moment. I'll think on it some more... other than the external oil lines (maybe one is kinked) on the engine.


I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.


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