Wont start after warm


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:07 pm



Hello, need some help with my new to me Goldwing. It is a 1984 1200 Goldwing standard with low miles. The bike will not start after it gets warm and not very warm at that. When cold all I need to do is use the choke and a quick push of the button it starts. After a couple minutes of running and shutting it off results in it not starting. The starter spins fast but doesn't seem to catch as far as I can tell. The PO said it is a new starter and gave me the old one also. I read a bunch of threads and most agree that the battery is the problem. The battery needed replacing so I replaced it. Same problem. Not sure what to do next to find the issue. I don't know much about the bike, but I believe it has a car fuel pump instead of stock. Don't know if that is a contributing factor or not. Thanks for some ideas and also please explain what to do with as much detail as you can, thank you!



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oldishwinger
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:26 pm
Location: New Zealand
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby oldishwinger » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:28 pm

Are you saying that after the bike is warm, the starter spins but wont engage the motor?

If so, its a problem, which can be caused by gunk build up, on the starter clutch, or dirty or burnt,
connections around the starter soliniod. the solenoid is situated to the right of the battery,
under a rubber cover with the 30 amp dog bone fuse holder.

A friend with a 84 standard had the same problems although it was difficult to start cold and hot, with
the starter spinning but not engaging, and it was the soleniod plus a gunk build up was the culprit.

mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:59 pm

Thanks for the quick response

I need to change the oil since I don't know when it was changed last. I will try the seafoam trick, just dont want to be stranded. Will also check the solenoid. Thanks

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oldishwinger
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:26 pm
Location: New Zealand
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby oldishwinger » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:28 pm

If you require a new solenoid, they are available new with blade fuse holder combination, on ebay.

nevada4419
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:06 am
Location: Pahrump, Nevada
Motorcycle: 1984 gl 1200

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby nevada4419 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:06 pm

I had somewhat of a similar problem on my 84. Mine on a warm day after riding at least 15 min and shutting down the bike would not restart. The starter would spin fast but the engine would backfire and spit, does your do that? Mine was an ignition problem I think they replaced two coils and that fixed the problem.

mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Mine does not catch at all, the starter just whirls

mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:48 pm

I was just reading my manual and it said that if the starter is removed on the 84 model that the engine must be pulled to put the drive chain back on the starter. The PO said he replaced the starter and I am wondering if the drive chain is not properly installed on the starter? Or would the failure be all the time and not just when warm. I think I would have all sorts of issues if the starter and drive chain were not lined up... but I don't know for sure. Anyone know?

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17050
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Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:47 am

This is a common issue of failing pulse generators. When they start to fail, they will not work well when warm. No starts when warm is the first symptom, followed by missing when running warm as they get worse. This could very well be your issue.

mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:57 pm

I have been wanting an 84 for a long time... now after reading up on most of the possible issues the manual starts off by, remove the motor as described earlier... ouch! Oh well, little hard work never scared me, but I don't want to remove the engine a bunch to figure out the problem.

First thing I will do is check the solenoid connectors (easy) and if that is looking good I will move on to the harder ones
Next I will check the ohms on the pulse generator (easy), hopefully that comes back in specs, if not pull the engine and do stuff to it. Also, can I pull a spark plug and ground it on the bike to see if there is spark? Would this also tell me if the PG is out?

Last, if PG is ok run sea foam through the engine to clear up the starter clutch (second easiest), if that doesn't work pull the engine and do stuff to it.

WOW, if it is the PG looks like I am SOL. Don't see any replacements except used from ebay... I hope it isn't the PG.

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oldishwinger
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:26 pm
Location: New Zealand
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby oldishwinger » Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:34 pm

The ECU can also cause starting issues, if time is not allowed for it to complete its check when starting.

Ive seen this on 1200 and 1500's where if the ECU will cause hard starting, or rough idling, if not allowed to complete
its preliminary check.

When starting, turn the ignition on, count to 4 or 5 seconds, then hit the starter button, this will allow to the ECU to do its
check of the systems.

1200's with the digital dash, the ECU can be seen doing its check, its starts on the left, goes through the neutral light,
flashes the brake warning light, and fuel light, before it settles the gauges down to normal.

just another thought for you.

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HawkeyeGL1200
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:53 am
Location: Courtland, Va.
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Interstate
1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:44 am

What you describe reminds me of the way a starter sounds when the bendix is bad. Mine did that when I first bought it. I mean my GL1200. It was only once in a while that after riding for a spell, the starter would "miss" and spin really fast without "catching" the engine to make it turn over.

After I put a couple of hundred miles and a couple of oil changes in the bike, the problem went away.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

rzaugg
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:04 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, Ia
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade
1989 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby rzaugg » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:13 pm

Try the Seafoam trick and take a longer trip that ends back in your driveway when you can. If the chain was not on right, it wouldn't crank at all. Pulse generator would be a symptom of engine cranks, but does not fire.

mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:05 pm

Changed the oil, added some Seafoam and took the old girl for a longish ride. Shut it down and hit start... vroooooom! I started the motorcycle a lot since then and it fires fantastically. I really hope that is it, seems too easy. Can I keep the Seafoam in there or do I need to change it quick?

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HawkeyeGL1200
Posts: 918
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Location: Courtland, Va.
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Interstate
1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:26 pm

I'd change the oil and filter before I rode it anywhere far. Seafoam isn't crankcase oil.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:20 pm

Changed the oil just to be safe, it was muddy! Still hard to believe that Seafoam fixed it that easy and it was fun fixing it!

mykobayashimaru
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: St George, Utah
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Standard
1983 Suzuki GS650
1982 Suzuki GS450A automatic

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby mykobayashimaru » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:16 am

Update: so the problem is worse. The bike is not starting niether cold and warm. The starter just spins. I can role start it. I also found if I role it put it in gaer go back to nutreual than sometimes after engaging the gear it would start again. So, it seems that if I move something in the engine the starter clutch has a chance of engaging with the starter. I am thinking the stater isn't attached well to the stater clutch. What do you all think?

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WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Wont start after warm

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:33 am

mykobayashimaru wrote:Update: so the problem is worse. The bike is not starting niether cold and warm. The starter just spins. I can role start it. I also found if I role it put it in gaer go back to nutreual than sometimes after engaging the gear it would start again. So, it seems that if I move something in the engine the starter clutch has a chance of engaging with the starter. I am thinking the stater isn't attached well to the stater clutch. What do you all think?


When the starter spins but does not engage the engine, it is normally a sign that the sprag clutch that engages the starter to the engine is not working correctly. The reason for this is that the sprag clutch does not have good lubrication flow, so oil sludge tends to collect there, clogging up the little sprag arms. Eventually, there is enough sludge in there to prevent the arms from engaging - the result is that the starter spins, but does not crank the engine. It starts out intermittent, and as time goes on and more and more sludge builds up, it starts to happen more and more often. If it gets to the point where it does not engage at all anymore, you've got a problem - the engine has to come out to get to it and clean it out.

Fortunately, if the engine can still be started, you're in luck - the fix is quite easy. Go to your local NAPA or Walmart and buy a can of Seafoam. Pour the whole can into your crankcase (where you normally pour your engine oil). Go out and ride for 30-60 minutes. When you get back, and while the engine is still relatively warm, drain the engine oil, and refill with clean oil. The Seafoam will dislodge and dissolve the gunk and sludge and allow it to run out with the engine oil - and in most cases, this will solve the starter problem. If there is a LOT of sludge in there, you might have to repeat the process a second time.

When I did this to my engine, I did it quite soon after I had changed the oil, so the oil was clean and fresh. I put the Seafoam in, rode for about 45 minutes, came home and drained the oil. I could not believe the black crap that came out of my engine. I now make a point of putting Seafoam through my engine just before the last oil change I do when putting the bike away for the winter.




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