charging issue???


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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gl1200i
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Motorcycle: 1984 gl1200i interstate

charging issue???

Postby gl1200i » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:27 am



Ok guys and gals I just bought a 1984 gl1200i. It had a bad battery. I replaced the battery with a new one. I filled and pre charged new battery I put it on my bike and it rus fine. Here's the issue I'm having though. While riding if I touch the front or rear brake when the ligh turns on it puts a draw on the battery. and while on a longer cruise with the radio on it will shut radio off because voltage dropped below 12.0 volts. I tested the yellow wires off of the stator and am pulling around 6 volts dc when idling on all 3 wires I tested that by the video seen on youtube. My question I guess I'm asking is could my regulator/rectifier be going bad? It does get pretty hot. Thanks in advance



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CMReynolds1
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Re: charging issue???

Postby CMReynolds1 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:48 am

The regulator should not get hot. It is definitely an issue you need to address.
Take care,
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HawkeyeGL1200
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1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: charging issue???

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:16 am

Take a look at the three-wire connector just forward of your battery box. These connect the stator to the R/R and they're probably burnt looking. Most "Old" Wing riders remove the connector and solder the wires together (with heat shrink tubing over the solder joints) to make a better and permanent connection.

I'd have to find the output in AC volts from the stator in order to give you a test value from the stator to the R/R... it's a test you can perform to make sure your stator isn't bad. Just remember the stator output is AC, three-phase, into the R/R which converts the AC to DC for charging and engine-lights operation. Three phase AC is used as an input (or so my electronics buddy tells me) to "cover" the highs and lows of converting the AC to DC at the rectifier... no peaks and valleys in the output voltage in that way... or no "gaps" for a non-electrical guy like me.

I've hard wired both my bikes and there's a big difference in how the battery is charged and less light dimming when I apply the brake at a stop.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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virgilmobile
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Re: charging issue???

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:32 am

Point of interest.
The regulator module on the 1000,1100,and the 1200 have a heat sink,the metal housing.This unit is called a "shunt" regulator.Any excess power that's not needed is shunted to ground.This "shunt" or short will develope heat that is transferred to the case.It is normal for the case to get very warm.My 1200 regulator would reach 165* in 15 minuts or running.All with a output of 14.2 volts,running the load of the bike and 4 amp charging the battery.

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virgilmobile
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Re: charging issue???

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:39 am

Also,the testing of the stator wires.When it's hooked to the regulator module,the AC measurements can be deceiving.AC measurements should be done between each pair of wires(3 measurements) with it unhooked from the regulator module.Each pair should be around 25 Volts AC at 1000 rpm and can go above 75 volts AC at 3500 rpm.
With the bike off,there should be no (resistance)continuity from the yellow wires to ground.Do not bother measuring for any voltage,either AC or DC from the yellow wires to ground.

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WingAdmin
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Re: charging issue???

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:06 pm

gl1200i wrote:Ok guys and gals I just bought a 1984 gl1200i. It had a bad battery. I replaced the battery with a new one. I filled and pre charged new battery I put it on my bike and it rus fine. Here's the issue I'm having though. While riding if I touch the front or rear brake when the ligh turns on it puts a draw on the battery. and while on a longer cruise with the radio on it will shut radio off because voltage dropped below 12.0 volts. I tested the yellow wires off of the stator and am pulling around 6 volts dc when idling on all 3 wires I tested that by the video seen on youtube. My question I guess I'm asking is could my regulator/rectifier be going bad? It does get pretty hot. Thanks in advance


That "video on Youtube" has led more people astray, because it shows 100% wrong information. The stator wires are three-phase AC, you can not (and should not) measure them using DC mode, nor will you gain any usable information measuring DC.

Test each pair of yellow wires using AC mode on your meter, both at idle as well as at 2500 RPM.

Your battery is supposed to act as a reserve - so if you draw more than your stator can supply (i.e. brake lights) then your battery makes up the difference. If your stator can't supply enough to keep your battery charged, then it's going to do exactly what you're describing.

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littlebeaver
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Re: charging issue???

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:54 pm

Oh my goodness, I just viewed the video,, right now I'm in the state of Shock :shock: ..........Holy smackrels ... That's not how I test the yellow wires man.. :shock:

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Re: charging issue???

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:03 pm

littlebeaver wrote:Oh my goodness, I just viewed the video,, right now I'm in the state of Shock :shock: ..........Holy smackrels ... That's not how I test the yellow wires man.. :shock:


That's not how ANYONE should test the wires. It's completely wrong. Every meter will show a different value depending on how it's built. When you put AC into a meter set to read DC, some meters will read zero, some will read fluctuating values, some will read something else. The only correct way is to read the AC value between each set of legs. This is what the Honda service manual describes, Steve (the poster of the video) should know better.

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gl1200i
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Re: charging issue???

Postby gl1200i » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:47 pm

Tested wires one is pulling 35 ac the rest are at 10. (That is while still connected to the regulator/rectifier.) I also noticed there is no plug so po must've removed it.wires have gotten hot and melted into eachother. I pulled then apart cut out melted part. Do these 3 have to stay seperate Or can I solder them together to make 2 connection between the 6? Also I do start to charge. At idle 12.19 at 1800 12.7 (before I cut and cleaned the wires)
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virgilmobile
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Re: charging issue???

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:57 pm

You may not connect the wires in any fashion other than wire to wire straight from the stator to the regulator.And they must be a perfect connection.Absolutly clean or properly soldered.
Your voltage readings are useless if the regulator module was still hooked up.It must be disconnected to properly measure AC volts and resistance readings.The reason is the voltages can be jacked out of shape if the diode block in the regulator is partially shorted or open.
One step at a time.Theres only 2 parts to this charging system.You must separate them to find out which one is at fault.
Unhook the stator from the regulator.Either at the battery area or at the regulator then test the stator voltage.Let us know what the 3 readings are.There measured in pairs.
Wire 1 to wire 2 then 2 to 3 and finally 3 to 1.
Also measure the resistance of each pair if you like.They should be all the same.There should be no continuity(resistance) from the yellow wires to ground.Thats zero ohms.Just like your meter isn't even touching the wires.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: charging issue???

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:58 pm

Each wire from the stator must be kept separate from the others. Each should have a mate feeding the R/R.. AC in, DC out of the R/R.. if you put two phases from the stator together, I imagine there will be some kind of firework as a result... bad to let them touch.

If they've melted together, I suspect you've got a bad stator. I will leave the final determination to a more electrically savvy person. All three stator wires should produce close to the same amount of AC current into the rectifier... that much I know. I think the "test is best performed cut loose from the rectifier, as I don't think you want "load" on the stator when you test it...

I should have put this FIRST... word of caution.. a SERIOUS shock can be had from touching the wires from the stator while the engine is running... probably enough of a shock to electrocute a person if conditions are just wrong enough... so please be careful.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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gl1200i
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Re: charging issue???

Postby gl1200i » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:55 pm

Ok guys after cleaning the wires and putting them back together correctly instead of wing nuts That were on there!!! :evil: Lol i went through wiring cuz my turn signal lights on bike and dash were always lit up. I found it wasn't connected through stock harness some one rigged it up so they would work. I went through and correctly re wired those and haha lights gone from dash and blinkers work as they should. So I took it for an hour ride around town with radio jamming pulled back in and was reading 12.8 on battery so didn't lose any juice this time I'm happy :D My next question is could those have been shorted and putting a draw on the battery before I re wired the blinkers? And 2nd I have a tail light light lit on my cluster but tail lights work as they should. Should I trace wires and see if he has that rigged somewhere as well that could be another constant draw/short while bike is running?

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SilverDave
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Re: charging issue???

Postby SilverDave » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:08 am

But .... but .... Did you properly test the stator with the three part test WHEN it was totally cut loose from the Reg/rect ? ? ?

Its an AC test , requiring a reliable AC test meter .

See here :
The THREE part stator test ...
http://iwing.org/Tech%20info/testingstator.htm
and third post down here :
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/forum1/93011.html

As well, there is a ( less decisive ) test for the reg/rect when it is cut loose from the stator... in your manual .


These tests are the only way to really really know if the stator or Reg/rect are still any good, or should be replaced.

SilverDave

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SilverDave
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Re: charging issue???

Postby SilverDave » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:23 am

If it was my bike, I un-solder those three yellow wires, go get some good wire solder and some triple shrink wrap sets, and then ..

A) Do ALL the 6 tests on the uncoupled stator and reg / rect
.. A to B, B to C and C to A voltages , etc, etc

B) Replace any iffy "melted" wires with newer yellow wires.... and cut back all wires until you get to good copper wire.

C ) Practise the proper Lineman's splice on scrap wire :

https://bigbolt101.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... ns-splice/

D) Also check the various coloured wires at the reg/rect for overheating / melting ... replace all if needed ..

E) Clean up the braided ground strap connector ( behind the frame ) ... Its critical to good charging .

F) Then .... carefully solder and carefully shrink wrap the three yellow wires ..... linemans splice , triple shrink wrap, etc

----------------------------------------------------------------
But then as long as you have your soldering gun out, and the shrink wrap...
.....I can HIGHLY recommend the EC GL1200 harness :
all of the iffy connections replaced, double fused, larger size wire ), and hot wires going to the coils , too..

http://electricalconnection.com/index.p ... uct_id=165

You could probably make it yourself, for less than the $50... but there is also the running around time too..

In any case, I found it the best $50 I have ever spent on my GL1200... You can also set the spark plugs at 50 thou ( Hotter ) and I have had no charging electrical problems since installing it, about 10 years ago.

SilverDave

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littlebeaver
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Re: charging issue???

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:35 pm

auh man, Someone make a video of this procedure please and post it....Please..

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Whisky
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Re: charging issue???

Postby Whisky » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:00 pm

I am having an issue too with my charging system. I replaced the stator. I direct hooked the wires. My battery is not charging. I did check one of the diodes and there was no continuity in it. If there is a short in the wire will it blow the diodes?

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virgilmobile
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Re: charging issue???

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:09 pm

No.
Its possible the failing stator damaged it.
All 6 diodes must work for the system to charge.Time for a new one.

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Re: charging issue???

Postby Whisky » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:18 pm

I tested the wires up to the Rectifier. I am getting 32 volts to it. It seems to have an extra harness on it with a diode or condenser. and two green wires on it. I took it off and still not charging battery. Two things are also happening. The brake light stays on the dash and rear. These were jerry rigged when I got the bike and were to a toggle switch to turn off the headlight and service lights. Second, I have a neutral switch light on the dash all the time. Even when shifted into gear. I unplugged the fuse and still no charge to the battery. any ideas out there?

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virgilmobile
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Re: charging issue???

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:05 pm

Whisky wrote:I tested the wires up to the Rectifier. I am getting 32 volts to it. It seems to have an extra harness on it with a diode or condenser. and two green wires on it. I took it off and still not charging battery. Two things are also happening. The brake light stays on the dash and rear. These were jerry rigged when I got the bike and were to a toggle switch to turn off the headlight and service lights. Second, I have a neutral switch light on the dash all the time. Even when shifted into gear. I unplugged the fuse and still no charge to the battery. any ideas out there?


I'm not sure about this diode part you refer to...how out a picture and where it's hooked to.The original charging system has a module with 2 green wires on it..It also has 2 red ones 3 yellow ones and a black one....

Getting 32 volts to it....I'm sorry..that's too vague a description for me to properly diagnose the problem...

Proper voltage test of the stator is specific...
Unplug the stator from the R/R module....
Measure with a AC volt meter with the engine idling near 900-1000 RPM.

Pick 2 of the 3 yellow wires..Identify them as wire 1 and 2...the extra wire will be 3..

Step 1..Start the bike and idle near 900 RPM.
Measure the AC volts between 1 and 2..then 2 and 3 and finally 1 and 3.....
Shut down the bike...

Step 2..Measure Ohms or resistance scale the same method as step 1.

Step 3..Measure from any yellow wire to the battery negative terminal...

On a proper operating stator....expect this..........

Result 1..AC voltage at a idle on the yellow wires...somewhere between 25 and 35 volts...the same on all 3 pairs.
Any change in RPM and the AC voltage will change..
At 3500 RPM..AC voltage can be in excess of 70 volts.

Result 2..Because each type of meter can measure different , resistance of the coils may not match the book...
You are measuring the resistance of a length of wire...it will be very low...expect less Than 5 ohms...
Each pair should measure very close to exactly the same.

Result 3..No continuity to ground...meaning no measured resistance....just like it's not even touching.
This stator is a 3 phase AC unit..there is absolutely no electrical connection to the bike by its self...
All the charging stuff is handled by the diodes and regulator..

There is only one other part to the charging system...The rectifier/regulator module....Nothing else..
This magic box contains 6 big diodes to convert the stator AC voltage to DC voltage...All 6 diodes must be OK and there is a way to test each one...
The R/R module requires a good green ground,a good connection to the battery and a switched 12 volts to operate the regulator.

As far as the light problem....put it on the back burner for the moment....get it charging first then explore one at a time...Suspect jerry rigged wiring to mask the real problem...I usually remove ALL attempt of others to "fix" electrical problems this way...and restore it to OEM wiring first ....then restore it back to operation.

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Re: charging issue???

Postby Whisky » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:30 pm

Thanks for the help so far. The diode or maybe it is a condenser. Looking at the wire diagram for a 84 Asspencade . does not show it being there. It adds another six inches of wire to the harness from the stator to the regulator. It also has the diode on it. This is the one I checked and there was no continuity in it. I looked at the diagram for a 87 interstate and it show it being on there. Not sure if it is suppose to be there. I disconnected the harness and check the output before the regulator. It was showing 32 volts going into the regulator. hooked it up and started the bike but it will only put out 12.6 volts from the regulator when you reeve it up to 3000 rpm. Like I said, does not look like it suppose to be there since the harness mount sits right next to the regulator and the plug from the regulator will go perfectly to the mount female confection. I will go at it again tomorrow and check all the continuity and grounds and see what I can do. Thanks again.




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