Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200


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whtent85LTD
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: south Surrey, B.C.
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:17 am



Hello everyone ! This is Al from 'Beautiful British Columbia'. (right near US border at Blaine Wa). Damn that HST (happy July 01)
Is everyone going to relax as well as celebrate CANADA DAY? ENJOY the sunshine in your area !!!
******
I really hope someone can help me out. Yes, I'm a newbie and a frustrated one right now.
I am unable to start my 85 GW. Yes, there's gas, switch set to run.
** I also put switch to OFF as per manual...to clear any flooding, and cranked it for about 5 sec or so.
* When I hit the start button, the starter appears to be working, there's just no engine starting.
* I made sure the fuel value is in the on position
* I recharged the battery and even put a charger on it
... set the charger switch to both 12volt and 75amp ? (for the booster- short bursts on charge to try to start)
* same problem
* Oil light is on (at startup), other two lights go off after cranking- ie. Fuel red light and Fuel system red light.
* current condition- charging via 2amp trickle charge overnight. (june30)

* last time I ran motorcycle was on Sunday. Had to charge somewhat to get it running then as initial starting
didn't work. Fuel system red light stayed on for a bit. Then later went off when I later restarted bike on its own. (1-2 hrs later)
Any info someone may provide to help me out would be very welcome.
Thanks,
Al


Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

actionpack
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:29 pm
Location: hale , mi.
Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby actionpack » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:17 am

so engine spins freely but a no go on starting , guess first thing u need to do is see if u got spark at the plugs , if so u need to check for fuel problem , but first check for spark
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thomas
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Motorcycle: 2002 1800
Goldwing

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby thomas » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:03 pm

Sounds to me like you need a new battery. I know that if you have a battery and it takes 12 amp to turn the motor over , but you will need 13 amp for it to fire and run. That one amp has caused a lot of misery. I don't known if the amp right , but I do know that a lot of motorcycle riders and techs have been fooled by this . They belive the battery is ok by the way the motor spins over and come to find out the battery have enough power to spin the motor ,but it doesn't have that exta power to fire the motor.
thomas

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whtent85LTD
Posts: 21
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Location: south Surrey, B.C.
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:03 pm

Thanks Thomas and Actionpack for your responses. I do greatly appreciate your comments.
I'm just about to check the spark but still trying to figure out (as a newbie) how to get the chrome
flange plate off in front of the plugs.
Good point Thomas- re the 13amp. This battery must be about 2-3 yrs old now (most of it sitting
as I haven't owned/licensed bike for a while- its been parked and charged sporadically)
and I have had to charge it up a number of times. Voltmeter shows 12.4 volts after charge. Maybe
I should do a cell gravity check and a load check. Like I said, starter is turning motor (flywheel) quite good
but no 'ignition'. No-Spark also does sound/seem like it might be a likely issue.
Is there a site that show how to take that chrome flange plate off to check the plugs? I'd better put some
penetrating oil at base of plugs after reading all the horror stories about people breaking off plugs in the
head. Another possible culprit may be the fuel filter or the fuel pump.
Good karma to you-
Al
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

actionpack
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:29 pm
Location: hale , mi.
Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby actionpack » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:13 pm

whtent85LTD wrote:Thanks Thomas and Actionpack for your responses. I do greatly appreciate your comments.
I'm just about to check the spark but still trying to figure out (as a newbie) how to get the chrome
flange plate off in front of the plugs.
Good point Thomas- re the 13amp. This battery must be about 2-3 yrs old now (most of it sitting
as I haven't owned/licensed bike for a while- its been parked and charged sporadically)
and I have had to charge it up a number of times. Voltmeter shows 12.4 volts after charge. Maybe
I should do a cell gravity check and a load check. Like I said, starter is turning motor (flywheel) quite good
but no 'ignition'. No-Spark also does sound/seem like it might be a likely issue.
Is there a site that show how to take that chrome flange plate off to check the plugs? I'd better put some
penetrating oil at base of plugs after reading all the horror stories about people breaking off plugs in the
head. Another possible culprit may be the fuel filter or the fuel pump.
Good karma to you-
Al

therea juat a couple of small screews that hold them plug covers on , if u look good u will see them , anti seeze on the plugs is a good idea when u put them back in ,i'm sure there are some post here on the site for no spark and no fuel , if not goldwings facts.com will have a answer for u , http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/drwIndex.php
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whtent85LTD
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Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Hi Actionpack !

Thanks. I did find the screws and took the flange and upper fiberglass panel off (near the vent).
Next, I pulled the spark plug boot off and noticed a very recessed spark plug.
I have several spark plug sockets, regular, resistor, and swivel (the one that dangles on the end of a special
T tool.
I can't seem to find a proper one to fit in order to get these plugs out.
btw: when I do, I guess I just have to look at the end of the plug attached to the plug wire when cranking the
engine- correct? I mean to see if there is a spark.
So far ignition seems to be ok- all dash and lights come on when I turn the key to run.
** I've noticed one thing before, not on a bike, but van. If the fuel pump goes, you can keep cranking till
the cows come home and no starting. However, if you bang on the gas tank (holding the fuel pump at top)
and then try to start- it works. Could be worth a try on the bike...if I could only find the fuel pump as well.
Much appreciated.
Al
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

thomas
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Location: Canadian,Texas
Motorcycle: 2002 1800
Goldwing

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby thomas » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:34 pm

Whtent85LTD
If you are lucky . There maybe a tool pouch with the bike and there should be a spark plug socket in it. It should be about 6 inches long with a octangle shape on one end and the other end with have a hole tha a screw drive will go thru for leveage . Should be located in one of the side boxes
thomas

actionpack
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Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby actionpack » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:57 pm

left side saddle bag on the rear of it should be a pouch of tools , i think the plugs would be metric ,make sure u blow then holes out with air in case theres dirt in there befor removeing plugs , yes ground it out to something and see if u have spark , if ya got spark , take some wd 40 and spray in the open air cleaner and see if it fires up , if it won't fire see if u got juice to the fuel pump
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whtent85LTD
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Location: south Surrey, B.C.
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:08 pm

Hi Actionpack and group.

As an update, I took out and checked each spark plug to see if there was spark- None showing.
you mentioning checking the fuel pump to see if you have juice- HOW do I go about doing that please?
I also found the right socket for the plugs, but I really should have somehow blown out any dust before removing
the plugs...oops- I was careful though and didn't think I disturbed any dust etc. to fall into the chamber. Its an
18mm socket that works. Also, good tip on the tool pouch. I forgot I had one of those. Its located in the back
trunk area.
* July 13 today- I've got the seat off now, also the false gas tank cover. I was trying to figure out where and how
I am going to check out the coils (2) to see if there is power going to the plugs. If not, someone mentioned to go
back and check the wiring from the ignition switch or was it the kill switch to the ignition. Right now the kill switch
'seems' to be working- how do I know? When I turn the ignition on with the kill switch set at 'Run', the Oil red light
comes on the LED dash as does the red Fuel light and the red Fuel system light. When I turn it to Stop, the only
light staying on is the red Oil light. The other two go off.
*** I'm really confused and frustrated by this OUT OF THE BLUE loss of spark to the plugs.
If anyone has any ideas on how to help , that would be most appreciated.
Tks. Al
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

goldtr6c
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Hitchcock, Tx
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1982 GL1100 STD
1976 GL1000 "800lb Canary"

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby goldtr6c » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:57 am

Try cracking the bolt on the injector side of the fuel filter. Now turn the key on for a second. Fuel should spray out. The fuel injection filter has a much finer filter screen than the carb model and the fuel may not be making it past this point. Mine was full of water. I cross referenced one at the auto parts store and found one that almost exact. Honda Civic if I remember right. If I find my notebook I'll send you the part number.

actionpack
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:29 pm
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Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby actionpack » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:06 pm

pm sent , hope it helps let me no
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whtent85LTD
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Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:24 pm

Hi Actionpack,
Still unable to start my 85 LTD 1200- July 27 now.
ECU lights showing- #3 blinking, # O blinking, # W on solid. GW manuals seem to point to
an Ns Sensor being the problem- Engine Speed Sensor or as I think its also called- Crank Sensor.
There is simply no spark at the plugs when I try to start the bike.
Perhaps GOLDWINGADMIN or someone else has some great color pics of where this Crank Sensor is
located and perhaps more importantly, the connector by the right side of the engine which goes to this
sensor. Someone stated on another web site that quite often wiring connectors are the problem.
** I'd be jumping for joy if I can get this wing started again- no foolin !
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

goldtr6c
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Hitchcock, Tx
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1982 GL1100 STD
1976 GL1000 "800lb Canary"

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby goldtr6c » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:40 pm

The crankshart position sensor is under the timing belt covers in front. It will be just to the left (port side) of the crank pullies. This is one item that will be hard to find if it is broken. You can test it with a good digital multimeter without removing it by finding the connector that will be under the "tank" just forward of the voltage regulator. There were some of these that were defective from Honda a few years back. Mine was one. Since your bike has run recently, I seriously doubt if you have one of these units. The defective units are still usable if you switch the wires.

actionpack
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:29 pm
Location: hale , mi.
Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby actionpack » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:21 pm

whtent85LTD wrote:Hi Actionpack,
Still unable to start my 85 LTD 1200- July 27 now.
ECU lights showing- #3 blinking, # O blinking, # W on solid. GW manuals seem to point to
an Ns Sensor being the problem- Engine Speed Sensor or as I think its also called- Crank Sensor.
There is simply no spark at the plugs when I try to start the bike.
Perhaps GOLDWINGADMIN or someone else has some great color pics of where this Crank Sensor is
located and perhaps more importantly, the connector by the right side of the engine which goes to this
sensor. Someone stated on another web site that quite often wiring connectors are the problem.
** I'd be jumping for joy if I can get this wing started again- no foolin !
i did'nt see tell later u had a fuel injection wing , i have carbs , i can't even help ya , keep working on it and sometimes finally something just jumps out at ya and problem is solved , connectors are a big problem on these old wings
Image

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whtent85LTD
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: south Surrey, B.C.
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:18 pm

goldtr6c wrote:The crankshart position sensor is under the timing belt covers in front. It will be just to the left (port side) of the crank pullies. This is one item that will be hard to find if it is broken. You can test it with a good digital multimeter without removing it by finding the connector that will be under the "tank" just forward of the voltage regulator. There were some of these that were defective from Honda a few years back. Mine was one. Since your bike has run recently, I seriously doubt if you have one of these units. The defective units are still usable if you switch the wires.



** Hi Goldtr6c, Is the CPS your mentioning and the location also applicable to a fuel injected wing (like the 85 LTD?). Others have told me that part locations differ depending if you have a fuel injected model or carbureted. (spelling ?) Tks. for the advice on the connector- that's the baby I need to find. I have a feeling that's where my problem will be. (per others with similar issues). Maybe a little tlc cleaning on the contacts with some di-electric grease will cure my bike issue. I have a good digital multimeter- so that'll come in handy. As a newbie, I'm learning more about this bike every day. It was a lot scarier at first...as I didn't know how to even take the plugs out or the seat off or the false tank. What was hard- it seemed- is now easy. Much appreciated to those who have helped me out thus far.

** Also, is the CPS your talking about the same Ns sensor (Engine Speed sensor) that the ECU lights are referencing as being a prblm?
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

User avatar
whtent85LTD
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: south Surrey, B.C.
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:25 pm

thomas wrote:Sounds to me like you need a new battery. I know that if you have a battery and it takes 12 amp to turn the motor over , but you will need 13 amp for it to fire and run. That one amp has caused a lot of misery. I don't known if the amp right , but I do know that a lot of motorcycle riders and techs have been fooled by this . They belive the battery is ok by the way the motor spins over and come to find out the battery have enough power to spin the motor ,but it doesn't have that exta power to fire the motor.
thomas


Hi Thomas ,
If the bike is turning over (cranking but not starting)...shouldn't there be SOME SPARK, at least, at the plugs regardless of how many volts the battery has or what life there is left in it?? My bike has NO SPARK at all at the plugs when the bike is cranking (ignition on-
start button depressed)- I did check each plug for spark. Nada
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

User avatar
whtent85LTD
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:22 pm
Location: south Surrey, B.C.
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:34 pm

actionpack wrote:
whtent85LTD wrote:Hi Actionpack,
Still unable to start my 85 LTD 1200- July 27 now.
ECU lights showing- #3 blinking, # O blinking, # W on solid. GW manuals seem to point to
an Ns Sensor being the problem- Engine Speed Sensor or as I think its also called- Crank Sensor.
There is simply no spark at the plugs when I try to start the bike.
Perhaps GOLDWINGADMIN or someone else has some great color pics of where this Crank Sensor is
located and perhaps more importantly, the connector by the right side of the engine which goes to this
sensor. Someone stated on another web site that quite often wiring connectors are the problem.
** I'd be jumping for joy if I can get this wing started again- no foolin !
i did'nt see tell later u had a fuel injection wing , i have carbs , i can't even help ya , keep working on it and sometimes finally something just jumps out at ya and problem is solved , connectors are a big problem on these old wings



Thanks... Actionpack ! I hear ya. Sometimes you just stumble upon a 'fix' and in my case, that's what might happen...but I have to be careful in what I'm doing as I don't want to make a bad situation worse. Slow and steady...but no riding is a bummer.
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

actionpack
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:29 pm
Location: hale , mi.
Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby actionpack » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:22 pm

whtent85LTD wrote:
actionpack wrote:
whtent85LTD wrote:Hi Actionpack,
Still unable to start my 85 LTD 1200- July 27 now.
ECU lights showing- #3 blinking, # O blinking, # W on solid. GW manuals seem to point to
an Ns Sensor being the problem- Engine Speed Sensor or as I think its also called- Crank Sensor.
There is simply no spark at the plugs when I try to start the bike.
Perhaps GOLDWINGADMIN or someone else has some great color pics of where this Crank Sensor is
located and perhaps more importantly, the connector by the right side of the engine which goes to this
sensor. Someone stated on another web site that quite often wiring connectors are the problem.
** I'd be jumping for joy if I can get this wing started again- no foolin !
i did'nt see tell later u had a fuel injection wing , i have carbs , i can't even help ya , keep working on it and sometimes finally something just jumps out at ya and problem is solved , connectors are a big problem on these old wings



Thanks... Actionpack ! I hear ya. Sometimes you just stumble upon a 'fix' and in my case, that's what might happen...but I have to be careful in what I'm doing as I don't want to make a bad situation worse. Slow and steady...but no riding is a bummer.

if ya have checked backwards from the plug , i'm sure u will finally run across something , just had a weed trimmer tonite that would'nt start , no spark , ended up being a broken wire in a connector , so these connectors can mess with your mind
Image

goldtr6c
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Hitchcock, Tx
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1982 GL1100 STD
1976 GL1000 "800lb Canary"

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby goldtr6c » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:14 pm

The Ns sensor is Gl1200 term for crank sensor. It simply tells the computor how fast the crank is turning. I think the only test for it is for olms res. That can be done remotely at the connector. If it is bad, finding one is going to be the real challenge. I don't know if the carb models use one so you may have to watch for someone selling LTD/SEI parts on eBay and contact them to see if they have a used one. Most folks selling that stuff have now idea what they have or what it does so you may have to be real descriptive to them. I don't know of any unit that can be modified to take its place such as the throttle sensor. I was able to take a throttle sensor from an old Honda Civic and file it cut it tweak it to fit my LTD. So far so good.

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whtent85LTD
Posts: 21
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Location: south Surrey, B.C.
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing 1200 LTD

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby whtent85LTD » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:07 pm

Thanks Goldtr6c,

I'll still have to plug away at it. I'm trying to locate the 'CONNECTOR' for the Ns sensor. I gather
that would involve wiring coming from the ECU to the connector and on thru to the Ns sensor which
other members are telling me is in front of the engine- behind the rad and near or under the timing belt
cover- also located 'up front'... behind the rad and front fairing.
As a GL1200 LTD owner, is that correct?
I think if I can measure the ohms on the pins 6 and 25 coming off the ECU harness, that may give me
a better idea what I'm up against with this problem.
For me, its a slow learning process, but I truly appreciate the input from yourself and others. THANKS.
Al
south Surrey,BC

_______________________________________________
1972 BSA Lightning 650 (1st ride)
1985 GW LTD 1200

goldtr6c
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Hitchcock, Tx
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1982 GL1100 STD
1976 GL1000 "800lb Canary"

Re: Unable to start 85 Wing- LTD 1200

Postby goldtr6c » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:32 pm

The Ns connector will be a white, 2-pin connector located on the left (port) side of the steering neck. It will have one white and one yellow wire leading to it from bellow. Mine was in the open, but I did find one on another LTD that the connector was crammed under the ignition coil. By the way, the wiring diagram on this site here for the SEI is incorrect and so is the diagram in my Clymers book. The I used orriginaly to make repairs was in the Honda fuel injection suplement book for LTD/SEI. Mine has disapeared, but I will try to find who has it and send you a copy of that diagram.




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