Carb not firing


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Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:53 am



Greetings all-

New to the forums, and Goldwings, so a bit of tech help is in my future. I'm fairly mechanically inclined and just finished a nearly complete overhaul of my 1986 Aspencade's carb system. The only thing I didn't do was get into the idle mixture setup. New gaskets all around, thanks to Randakk's setup, drained and refilled the tank, fresh oil, brand new plugs.

I put the machine back together and I have a couple of issues that I am seeking advice on. First of all, the front two cylinders aren't igniting. I have great spark on them- hooked up a spark tester last night and got a solid blink on it all around, so I don't think it's the plugs, wires, or anything in that. I cracked the fuel drain screw and got drips from #2 bowl, not much from #1. Pipes from #3 and #4 were warm, so I think they're ok, but pipes from #1 and #2 were cold, so I don't think anything is igniting in the cylinder.

I think that helps me into issue #2. It starts up without "go juice" but dies out. If I have the air cleaner out and cover the plenum intake oval cutout with a seal (my hand in a ziplok) it fires right up and will run for about 15 seconds. Without that it dies in about 3-5 seconds.

Here's the kicker- and I'll probably get a wrench thrown at me for this- when I bought the bike from a guy in my town he said it hasn't run in 10 years- well from his repair records, it's probably 20. When I had the carbs off I pulled and drained the fuel lines, filter and pump, but I haven't replaced them. I don't think this should cause this issue, since if it were a fuel filter/pump issue it would affect everything after these parts, not just the front two carbs.

I'm going to change the filter today, but I tested the pump and when I hooked a battery directly to it, it pulsated a few times and stopped- should it pulse continuously if the output is not connected to anything?

I'll keep plugging on it, but that's it so far.



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virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Carb not firing

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:50 pm

The fuel pump should continue to pulse until it reaches cutoff pressure.If left open discharge into a container,it should pulse about twice a second as its pumping fuel.theres a set of contacts under the cover.They may need to be cleaned.The shaft extends from the plunger and trips the switch off,a internal spring pushes the plunger back to trip the switch again.Fuel pressure stops the plunger from moving.
There is also a rubber noise damper inside.It may be crumbling and jamming the plunger.Search "ticking fuel pump repair".lots to look at.
Also,if your pump is not working well,it is possible fuel is just making it into the rear carbs and not the extra distance to the front ones.

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:11 pm

From the sound of your post it may be a bad contact or pressure switch in the fuel pump. I'm going to pull it tonight and see if I can't rebuild it. Worst case scenario, they're only about $25. With that and the new filter I should do a little better. I'll keep you posted, and thanks.

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:36 pm

well, pump is fine. Filter and all fuel lines new as of this moment. No fuel coming out of the petcock. Tank breakdown next- any suggestions?

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Carb not firing

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:04 pm

The pet cocktail can be removed...I think.?I've never had this problem with mine tho..Others have..
I'd be tempted to stick a hose on the filter and into a gallon gas can ànd test run the engine...Just to be sure it's the tank or microscreens in the tank.
Removing the tank and fixing it's problems is quite a undertaking..If it's rusted or plugged up,read about a in frame chemical/electrolysis treatment.

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Carb not firing

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:51 am

Sorry about the previous post.
I do have a good grasp of the English language...The spell checker on my tablet just doesn't agree once in a while and slips in a different word or two.

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spiralout
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:41 pm
Location: Alabama
Motorcycle: 1975 GL1000 (gone)
1980 GL1100I (with '77 1000 engine)
1996 GL1500 SE

Re: Carb not firing

Postby spiralout » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:53 am

virgilmobile wrote:Sorry about the previous post.
I do have a good grasp of the English language...The spell checker on my tablet just doesn't agree once in a while and slips in a different word or two.

Did your keyboard invent the word "microscreen" too? :P How small does a screen have to be to be micro? :lol:

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redial
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:17 am
Location: Kapunda, SouthAustralia
Motorcycle: 1997 GL1500 Spectre Red Aspencade

Re: Carb not firing

Postby redial » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:10 am

After you have had a few "pet cocktails", who cares?
Len in Kapunda

The world is not going to finish today, as it is already tomorrow in Australia and New Zealand, and other islands of foreign nations such as Guam and Samoa.

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:31 pm

Well, figures I would back-pressure the fuel tank, put a pressure line on the fuel petcock and blew it clear. Starts up ok, but dies out. Also, when I rotate the throttle it bogs down and I have to baby it to full throttle. Maybe another dose of carb rebuild?

I got the bike with 20 year oil in it and no coolant- I replaced the oil filter and oil with 3 qt of Rotella T5 and 500ml of MMO. I'm going to put some Rotella ELC coolant 50/50 to water and see how it does. Anyone have thoughts on this one?

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maintainer
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:39 am
Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1977 GL 1000
1982 GL 1100 Interstate (Sold)

Re: Carb not firing

Postby maintainer » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:36 am

Suggestion only: I have known people to clear/clean a plugged up petcock by removing the fuel line and back spraying carb cleaner into it until it flows.
1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
1977 GL 1000 Standard (naked can be good, who knew?)

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:49 am

Got the line cleared with air compressor. Still boggs down when I try the throttle. Might have a charging issue, too.

I've read posts about the bike not wanting to start up after it's warm. Is this a starter issue common to Hondas of this era?

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maintainer
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:39 am
Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1977 GL 1000
1982 GL 1100 Interstate (Sold)

Re: Carb not firing

Postby maintainer » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:35 pm

If the petcock was totally clogged up someone let the fuel in the tank degrade to a gelatinous gunk. There could still be some in the tank or carb jets or really any part of the fuel delivery system.
1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
1977 GL 1000 Standard (naked can be good, who knew?)

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:10 am

Well....it's been about a week and a half of off-and-on wrenching, but we've seen progress. I got the bike started and warmed up and milked it out of the garage. Ran it down the street and it wouldn't get above about 20 MPH, Even wide open it won't get the RPMs above about 3500. Idles at 1k or so, dies if I go any lower. Been tinkering with cosmetics until my buddy who does Brit bikes can get over and turn a wrench or two with me.

It idles ok until I kill the choke, then dies. Or if I try to throttle it up it dies our. Any thoughts on this?

tprender
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:11 pm
Location: St Louis, Mo
Motorcycle: 1986 gl1200
1995 GL1500SE

Re: Carb not firing

Postby tprender » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:09 pm

If it only runs with the chock on, the pilot jets are clogged. If the 1st time that you started the bike you still have the original fuel lines on, the carbs need to be cleaned again. This happened to me when I was working on a '75 CB750. The dried up gas in the fuel line gets losen up and goes into the carbs and clogs up the jets. The 3rd time I cleaned the carbs I changed the lines and then it run like it should. I think that you need to go back into the carbs and clean out the jets and all of the passage ways inside of the carbs again.

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wingman12
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:01 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln
Motorcycle: 1999 gl1500 se

Re: Carb not firing

Postby wingman12 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:58 pm

Good afternoon Sainjude, first of all welcome to the best wing site and the friendliest and most help and knowledgeable people I have ever had the pleasure to run into.
Your recent purchase sounds a lot like the 1982 1100I that I had to bring back from the grave for a friend of mine. What PITA it was because it was very neglected and stored poorly for over 12 years. Take nothing for granted, every thing should be checked out because more than likely everything is original and you need to assume that the last po did not take care of the machine properly, you are going to have to clean out your fuel tank, (there are several ways, some easy and others more complicated) I went easy and used new fuel with a 16oz can of seafoam in 5 gal gas and let sit after I flushed as best I could the tank and rebuild the petcock. changed all fuel lines, fuel filters and loaded up the fuel pump with seafoam and let that sit a few days to dissolve the fuel that has turned to stone, your used a good rebuild kit but it does sound like you have the jets plugged up with old fuel that was still in the lines, take apart and reclean again, bench set your floats and preset your fuel/air mixture needles prior to reinstalling on bike. I do not know what the difference in carbs are between the 82 and 86 but there are a lot of persons on this site that are better qualified on the 86 than I am. I am not a professional mechanic, I only can relay what I had to do to get a bike running that seems to have been sitting less than yours but things are similar. You can often find the tutorials on this site for many of your bikes aliments and problems, if you can not find one, just ask and someone will point you in the right direction. Again welcome and good luck with your restoration of your newest ride. :D :D

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:40 pm

Boy, you guys don't know how appreciative of your help I am. I've worked on my 89 Route 66 Virago, lawnmowers, O/B boat motors, I/O motors, you name it, but this is new to me.

I didn't use Seafoam, but instead a product my friend suggested- he runs a LOT of 2-stroke motors and adds Starbrite Startron to everything- says it's kept all of his machines nicey-nice.

I did all the fuel lines, filter- got the one from, which I like because you can take it apart and flush it out instead of buying a new one every year or two. Can't remember if I did the lines before or after the carbs, but I'll drain the tank again and see about doing the in-situ cleaning on it. I'm not sure if there is an in-tank filter or anything, I remember there being lines inside the tank- are they attached to the pet-cock? I know it's difficult to remove the tank, but removing the petcock seems simple- I just wonder what had the other end plugged- could it just be a resin ball or an actual filter and it was glued up.

I did the complete rebuild and re-installed the carb setup without adjusting/setting anything- how important is that? How do you bench-set floats? Are you talking about the floats in the bowls? I wasn't aware that they need to be set for installation. Also, I don't see what fuel/air mixture needles you mean. I know there is a screw for the throttle adjustment (I assume idle speed) and there are vacuum adjustment screws, but I don't know of any other adjustments on it.

tprender
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:11 pm
Location: St Louis, Mo
Motorcycle: 1986 gl1200
1995 GL1500SE

Re: Carb not firing

Postby tprender » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:49 pm

The lines in the fuel tank are welded to the tank. There is a pickup inside of the tank with a screen over the line. After you drain the tank take the pickup for the fuel guage out and use your shop vac to get the last of the gas and anything else in the tank. After you take the petcock off, take the air and blow both of the lines real good if you have not done this already.
When you cleaned the carbs, did you take the jets out that could come out and then take a piece of wire from a wire brush(unless you have some welding tip cleaners) and put it in any hole that you can find in each carb. Use carb cleaner and then use air. Did you soak the carbs in anything. I soaked my in Pine-sol and water for 2 days to clean them, saw this on one of the sites on how to clean carbs.
Best of luck

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wingman12
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:01 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln
Motorcycle: 1999 gl1500 se

Re: Carb not firing

Postby wingman12 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:01 pm

Good afternoon, I was trying to locate a tutorial that shows you the carbs, but I honestly do no know what the 86 carbs look like, and I could not find anything on this site to assist you with a picture of the carbs. On the 82 there is one needle (it has a standard screw driver type notch in it) on the bottom of the float bowl. this needle adjusts the air/fuel mixture. the adjustment for the float bowls are a little more difficult, but not bad, but they do have to be on the bench and not in the bike. it is important that each bowl has the same amount of fuel all of the time. often when cleaning the fragile metal tabs get out of adjustment and have to be readjusted. after all cleaning, adjusting the float bowls, confirming each has the same amount of fuel, the air/fuel needle is preset, bench sync (by measuring the opening and closing of the carb throat butter flys) reinstall the carbs, hook up fuel and the bike should start after a few cranks to fill up the bowls. then you can sync the carbs and properly adjust the air/fuel needle. I will keep looking around for something to give you more visual assistance. More than likely many of the other persons on this site will have the answers you need immediately available because they have a 86 and have been down the same road you are on at this time. Please keep us informed of progress and I will continue to see if I can provide you with additional assistance . :D :D

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Carb not firing

Postby Saintjude33 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:31 pm

I've got my bike guru working with me and here's the verdict so far-

started in on it, only cyl 1 and 3 were firing. plenty of spark on 2 and 4, but major slime on the plugs- cold pipes on them two. BRAND NEW FILTER on the fuel line, the HP one Randakk sells. A little bit of residue (rust, maybe?) in it. Looked in the tank- yuck. Gonna have to clean it out.

Put fuel line back together. Fired up, bogged and dies at throttle-up. Had to nurse it up. Cyl 1, 2, and 4 hot to the tough after 60 seconds. Pulled plug on #3, kept running, pulled plug on #1, dies.

More to come

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wingman12
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Location: Land of Lincoln
Motorcycle: 1999 gl1500 se

Re: Carb not firing

Postby wingman12 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:55 pm

take some of that goop and put in the stuff your buddy told you about for cleaning things up and see if it dissolves the goop. do the same thing with some seafoam if you have some around, you might get lucky and find out that with a little soaking that goop may become lignified and be suspended in your cleaning solutions, that would make it really good for cleaning out your carbs. If you got that lucky?????? :) :) :) , you could load up your carbs with the same stuff overnight and drain the bowls in the am???

tprender
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:11 pm
Location: St Louis, Mo
Motorcycle: 1986 gl1200
1995 GL1500SE

Re: Carb not firing

Postby tprender » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:26 pm

I use the Startron in my gas on my '86 everytime I fill her up. I talked to the owner of the company a few years back and he said that it will clean out the carbs will the bike is running. It is very good at this and is better than stabal for putting in the gas when storing for the winter. I am not sure if it will clean out the junk with a soaking over night.

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wingman12
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Motorcycle: 1999 gl1500 se

Re: Carb not firing

Postby wingman12 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:36 pm

I am curious about the gunk, I wonder if because of poor storage there might be a finish that is applied to the inside of the tank when new to coat the metal. If not keep moist with fuel it tends to dry out and flake off the metal. I believe this was some kind of a plastic coating? I have not heard of Startron, I will have to check out to see if better than seafoam. Hope to hear of a happy solution by the weekend. :D :D

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julimike54
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Location: Euless, Texas
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200A original owner
2016 HD FLTRU

Re: Carb not firing

Postby julimike54 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:37 pm

I use Startron, it is supposed to keep the alcohol from separating from the fuel mixture & keep it from absorbing moisture into the alcohol, not good chemical reaction with steel. Seafoam (used on cars) is a cleaner additive, to clean carbon & gunk, where ever it is used (fuel or oil)
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wingman12
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Location: Land of Lincoln
Motorcycle: 1999 gl1500 se

Re: Carb not firing

Postby wingman12 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:21 pm

Tprender, from what I have read about Startron, this additive is a preventor additive not a cleanser. Seafoam is a cleanser and from our conversations over the last couple of days, your bike needs a cleanser not a preventor additive. Once cleaned up and running likes rapedape, Startron would do the job if you did not ride your bike a whole lot. :D :D

tprender
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:11 pm
Location: St Louis, Mo
Motorcycle: 1986 gl1200
1995 GL1500SE

Re: Carb not firing

Postby tprender » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:46 am

Wingman, I use the Startron to keep the alcohol in the gas from hurting my engine. Here in the corn belt, I think that they are putting more of it in than they are should. It also works very good when you go to store the bike for the winter. It says that it will keep gas good for 2 yrs. I have been using it for bout 3-4 years with no problems. When I used Stabile I would have to run that tank of gas out before the bike would start running good. With Startron, the bike runs good from the get go. The owner of the company when I talked to him, that I didn't need to use Seafoam any but Startron. Now if this is true, I don't know. But, it does work very well after the bike is running to get rid of the alcohol.




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