starter hanging up


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roadwanderer2
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starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:55 pm



ok, new question....i was at my local supermarket earlier, and when i went to start the bike up, i turned the key and pressed the starter button and the starter turned, and turned and turned even when i tried to shut the bike off. i wound up disconnecting the neg cable from the battery to get the bike to shut down. even with the key and kill switch off the bike still tried to start but only kept on cranking. i finally got the bike to start up, but the starter motor was still spinning. i was able to get it home, (about a mile away), and when i got into my garage, i had to again disconnect the neg cable to shut the bike down.

this is the first time iv'e ever experienced anything like this. anyone have any ideas as to whats happening and why?

stuart.



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Re: starter hanging up

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:19 pm

Take a screwdriver handle and give your starter solenoid (relay) a sharp rap. Most times this will fix the problem - temporarily.

As the starter relay ages, its contacts wear, and eventually they will "weld" closed. Jarring it with a sharp vibration can break them free, but if it's started to happen, it will keep on happening. Time to start shopping for a replacement.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:07 pm

ok, i guess i can try that, but while the starter was spinning even with the key off, i removed the blade fuse that i have connected to the original relay because the dog bone fuse blew out. what i did was take a inline blade fuse holder, crimped 2 ring ends on it and connected them to where the dog bone used to be, and even with that fuse removed, the starter still spun but the motor didn't start up until i disconnected the neg cable. once the bike stopped trying to start, i reconnected the neg cable and the bike started up but the starter motor kept turning until i got it home. now the bike wont start up at all because the brand new battery i put on it last night is dead. i have it on my tender to charge it back up.

i'll try installing one of my spare starter relays that i have onto the bike and see what happens.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:34 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:ok, i guess i can try that, but while the starter was spinning even with the key off, i removed the blade fuse that i have connected to the original relay because the dog bone fuse blew out. what i did was take a inline blade fuse holder, crimped 2 ring ends on it and connected them to where the dog bone used to be, and even with that fuse removed, the starter still spun but the motor didn't start up until i disconnected the neg cable. once the bike stopped trying to start, i reconnected the neg cable and the bike started up but the starter motor kept turning until i got it home. now the bike wont start up at all because the brand new battery i put on it last night is dead. i have it on my tender to charge it back up.


Correct. The starter is actually not fused at all - it draws so much power that a fuse large enough to fuse it would be enormous, so removing the master fuse will not affect it at all. If the solenoid is stuck closed, it has a direct circuit path from the battery to the starter. The only way to interrupt it is to remove a battery cable or to knock the solenoid open.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:17 pm

ok, i changed the starter relay and put a 30a fuse in it, turned on the key, pulled the clutch handle in, pressed the starter button and all i heard was a clicking sound coming from the starter solenoid relay and nothing from the starter its self. i looked at the bike's on board volt meter and it showed 11.2 volts. so i guess i have to let the "new" battery charge up again until i can see if it will start up.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:53 pm

ya know, im wondering if it has something to do with my ignition switch because its getting very hard to turn the key and when i do get it to the start position and all the dash lights come on, i get sound out of the radio speakers, no tunes, just sound even though the radio is off. is it possible my ignition switch is going bad?

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:49 pm

ok, i think the battery is charged up because when i turn the key to run, the on board volt meter shows 12.4 volts, but as soon as i turn the key to start, the voltage drops down to 11.2 volts. my next question is, is there a way to test the starter without removing it from the motor. i put on another starter solenoid relay and all it does is click, i get nothing from the starter, in fact, when press the starter button, all the lights go very dim until i release the starter button. im now starting to think that the starter is burned out. will a starter from an 83 1100 fit on an 86 1200? if it does, i can take the one out of my 1100 and try to fit it into the 1200.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:37 pm

ya know, i was thinking earlier about this, and thinking back to this morning when i first took it out, i kinda thought it might be the starter because a few times when i would start the bike up, the starter would drag. how hard of a job is it to pull the starter out of one of these 1200's? this will be my first time doing it and i know nothing about taking out a starter on a motorcycle. i have a repair manual downloaded onto my computer for it thanks to one of the guys on this site, but its not giving me much information to go on so i'll be going in blind on it. i heard there's some kind of a starter gear and a chain, (GL1100), thats liable to move if the bike isn't in a certain position? not sure if this is true for the GL1200, but thats what iv'e heard.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby wingman12 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:11 pm

Evening Stuart. Check the how to articles for the 1200. Just keep on side stand not on center stand. :D :D watch for wasps in your garage when working on your newest project.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby spiralout » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:18 am

roadwanderer2 wrote:my next question is, is there a way to test the starter without removing it from the motor.

Come on, Stuart, pushing 3k posts now and you don't know to put voltage directly to it? :P :P

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:34 am

yes i do, but i was wondering if there was an easier way to do it. I've been researching different posts and found that the starter is in fact burned out so its time to replace it.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:36 am

wingman12 wrote:Evening Stuart. Check the how to articles for the 1200. Just keep on side stand not on center stand. :D :D watch for wasps in your garage when working on your newest project.


thanks wingman, i'll definitely do that.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:56 am

well, now i have a few choices to make...i can pull the starter and get a new one for a hundred bucks, pull the starter, get a rebuilding kit for 22 bucks and rebuild it myself, (which i tried to do on a starter once before and failed miserably), or pull the starter, get the rebuilding kit and take it to a starter shop and let THEM rebuild it for me. decisions decisions lol.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:57 pm

does anyone in here have the stock OEM part number for the starter that goes onto an 86 1200 aspencade SEi?

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby spiralout » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:22 pm


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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:44 pm

thank you spiral.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:50 pm

ok, i have a question to ask, i don't know why i didn't think of this before, but, the first time i connected the new battery, (yesterday), i noticed some smoke coming from the area behind the solenoid. i quickly disconnected the battery, the smoking went away and i reconnected it and started the bike up. im not sure if that was something i should have investigated further, but it didn't interfere with the performance of the bike so i didn't bother checking it and i forgot all about it.

could there be a burned or melted or a fused together power wire or something behind the solenoid that i can't see or get to without removing the seat causing the starter "run on" and now not working at all situation? someone told me there's a yellow and red wire connected to the solenoid buried somewhere behind the solenoid or under the seat?

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby Aussie81Interstate » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:27 pm

oh no,

you have let the smoke out - that means you have to put it back in - I would be checking where the smoke came from as there must be some bad or corroded wiring very near to where the smoke has escaped - or a live wire touching frame etc..

I would think - remove the starter - then bench test it - if it spins up OK - could just need a clean out - or new brushes etc..
fix that issue - put the starter back in and then check your wiring/fuses/connections etc before you start it up again..

meanwhile keep your battery on a trickle charger/battery tender

any more smoke let out may cause further issues.. :)

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:00 am

thanks Aussie thats what im gonna do today. remove the seat, look for any signs of melted or fused wiring behind the frame and try to find out where that smoking came from.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:43 am

ok, as i was looking at all the wires coming off the solenoid, i DID find one wire that was melted and stuck to another wire. i had to take the solenoid connector wires and push them back thru the frame to where they tied into the main harness. i cut the bad section off, ran a new length of wire, used a male and female end connector, crimped the ends together, electrical tapped them together and ran them back thru the frame. here is a pic of the melted wire..........its the wire that's running above the one that has the inline fuse and has the connector ends soldered to it. im going to replace the solenoid switch with one of my new spares i have and hope i can get it to at least click if nothing else.

stuart.
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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:22 am

ok, the solenoid clicks when i press the starter button, but still no response from the starter itself. however, there is a clicking sound that seems to be coming from a box thats mounted on the right side of the frame. is this box part of the bike's computer system? if it is, is there a relay or something inside that box thats connected to the starter button on the handlebar because the only time i hear that clicking is when i press the starter button.........here is a pic of the box thats mounted on the right side of the inboard fairing.

stuart.
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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:46 pm

ok, question, will the starter from an 85 aspencade 1200 fit onto my 86 1200 aspencade SEi? if so, which model aspy, LTD, SEi? before i go and spend more than a hundred and twenty five bucks for a new one, i might be able to get one of an 85 1200 IF it will fit, but i need to know what series aspy is ok to get.

stuart.

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Re: starter hanging up

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:44 am

OK people, here's the skinny on removing the starter from an 86 GL1200 aspy SEi.

as i was removing the starter this morning, the only way to remove was to drop both L and R front exhaust manifold pipes, remove the left engine guard, take a flat bar and gently pry down on the left exhaust pipe while trying to rotate and maneuver the starter towards the front of the motor. there's just enough room to slide the starter forward, drop the gear end of the starter downward and pull it out. the bike was on my jack lift/stand, but i had to drop it down and put it on it's side stand to lower the front exhaust pipes. that little gear inside the motor did NOT move so i don't think that will be a problem for someone else either.

do keep a catch pan handy as oil WILL come out of the motor.

just thought you might want to know about this since i had to do it. when i removed the starter i did a quick "bench test" to see if the starter was frozen. when i connected it to my battery, it did spin, but it was very slow and dragged like it was binding up. im gonna get a rebuilding kit and rebuild this one and keep it as a spare. make sure you check your oil level as you WILL have to put some back into the motor.

i hope this helps anyone else that needs to remove their starter on their 86 GL1200 aspy SEi.

stuart.

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Aussie81Interstate
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Re: starter hanging up

Postby Aussie81Interstate » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:02 pm

Well,

Hopefully you have found the problem - if that start motor is anything like mine was- it will be full of carbon dust, and brushes well worn, and the contact area on the commutator will be carbon black - maybe even worn a bit.

When you rebuild it - I bet it spins a lot faster and better. Make sure you take a few pictures for us as well - would be interested to see how bad it is. You also need a good strong battery.. :)

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spiralout
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Re: starter hanging up

Postby spiralout » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:35 pm

Why did you end up having to take both headers loose? I don't have a manual for the SEi but the Haynes book on the carbureted 1200's shows it coming out just like the 1100.




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